#184
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 08:29:25 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Re: National Dairy Council
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
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Dear Michele,
It took me more than 30 years to make a 180% shift in my opinions about
dairy (from a dairy farmer to a holistic physician). The information is
out there for those who care enough to look.
Although I applaud you for your interest--and know that you will
eventually see what I have had forced upon me--I am not going to do your
homework for you.
I know that you will not like my response but it has taken me years of
dedicated postgraduate courses, personal research & experience to get
where I am. Since dairy is not an essential for health, what harm can
come from anyone trying this for themselves? The only reason for
professional input would be to avoid useless effort for those in whom it
was determined the trial was probably not worth the energy expended..
For example, 95% of all childrens' recurrent ear infections will cease
within a 4-8 week period of totally eliminating all dairy. No one will
be able to convince THOSE parents that this is not valid. I would bet
that no one would be able to get them to "search the literature" about it
either. They would KNOW. If this is all placebo effect, how come all my
other placebos (which antibiotics for ear infection are now considered to
be) did not work?
Good luck in your search. Remember, even Jesus had those he healed "walk
into the desert" to participate in their healing.
Walt Stoll. MD
On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:38:46 -0800 "Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES"
writes:
>**
>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>**
>
>Regarding the National Dairy Council and cow's milk, I, have heard
>about most of the epidemiologic data suggesting that cow's milk is
>associated with the problems that Walt Stoll, MD indicated. However,
>if there are randomized clinical trials showing direct cause and
>effect, I would very much appreciate their citations.
>
>If I am to make an informed decision about whether to educate about
>the dangers of milk, I need harder evidence than what I have seen to
>date.
>
>Perhaps Dr. Stoll can provide clear study examples demonstrating each
>of the problems he discusses in his argument.
>
>Thank you.
>===
>Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES
>Health Education Coordinator
>Kaiser Permanente, Mid-Atlantic States
>Company Email: michele.goldschmidt@kp.org
>Private Email: michele_goldschmidt@rocketmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
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>
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#185
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 08:16:06 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Re: Kudos for the Dairy Council
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Dear Margo,
It was not my intention to embarrass you. I am NEVER embarrassed when
anyone points out that I do not yet know everything--I am gratified for
the help! I just couldn't let others be guided down a primrose path when
I knew better.
Also I am not, in any way, suggesting that the "educators" from the Dairy
Council are either not qualified or consciencious about their jobs. The
entire system has evolved to protect the dairy industry, not the health
of the public. These people are doing their best to pass on what they
have been taught. Unfortunately, the better they are at their jobs, the
more damage they are capable of doing the health of the very people you
(and they) are trying to help.
The USDA is just as bad as the Dairy Council. For you to use the USDA to
substantiate the pronouncements of the National Dairy Council is worse
than having the fox guard the chicken coops. They are both paid by the
same special interests. It is going to take INDEPENDENT thinking to get
past the smokescreen these organizations have put up for many years.
Remember, if you believe in the tooth fairy and the tobacco lobby, you
might persist in believing the dairy lobbys for a while longer.
By the way, I hope you know that the dairy industry was one of the most
vociferous of the opponents of the present "food pyramid". It dares to
suggest that less dairy is better than more.
The fact that you are out here proves that you care. I am just telling
you that you are going to have to put in more independent research to
find the facts you are trying to pass on. I do not think ANYONE can any
longer trust any special interest for "facts" regarding their product.
The present beef producers suit against Oprah, for telling the truth, is
a good example.
Thanks for your note. Walt Stoll, MD
On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:31:17 -0800 "Margo Harris"
writes:
>Gee, Walt, how thoughtful of you to publicly embarrass me in that way.
>I am not so naive to think that the Dairy Council doesn't have an
>agenda. Obviously, you have much more information than I do about
>that.
>I also use a range of nutrition education sources in my classroom, and
>do not rely solely on the Dairy Council. I actually don't spend much
>time on calcium or milk in my class, rather teaching children about
>the
>food pyramid, food choices, nutrients, serving sizes, etc. Oddly
>enough, the Dairy Council materials have the very same information I
>find on the USDA materials and the materials from other nutrition
>organizations.
>
>Maybe I've just been fortunate to find well trained, objective
>professionals working for the state Dairy Councils in the different
>states where I have lived. Agenda or not, it is helpful to have an
>organization pay attention to national priorities such as the Healthy
>People objectives. For the record, I don't drink milk. Additionally,
>I
>think it's messages like yours that drive folks off the list or to
>post
>only privately. And no, Walt, I won't be touching on this subject on
>the list again, with or without more facts. Margo
>
>Margo Harris
>Harris Training & Consulting Services
>Seattle, WA
>Email: htcs@halcyon.com
>Web: http://www.htcs.com/
>
>
>
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#186
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 07:59:57 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Re: Kudos for the Dairy Council
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Dear Carmen,
It is a long story but, the more phosphorus one gets in their diet, the
less calcium their blood will get. This is because your parathyroid
balances these 2 minerals in our blood. In humans, the calcium in the
blood is high & the phosphorus low. As the phosphorus goes up, the
calcium comes down & vice versa. In human milk, these ratios mirror the
blood.
In cows' milk (& blood) the opposite is true: the calcium is low & the
phosphorus is high. SO, when we take in cows' milk (or anything made
from it) our phosphorus goes up and the calcium comes down.
The very best sources of calcium in the diet is from foods that are high
in calcium and LOW in phosphorus. Go to your library reference section &
ask the librarian for a book that shows the mineral content of foods.
Look for those with high calcium AND LOW PHOSPHORUS. Those are your best
sources of calcium. You will see that dairy products are much higher in
phosphorus than they are in calcium. Those with high calcium are not so
good if they also have high phosphorus.
These facts are known by any freshman medical physiology student AND any
graduate dietitian. Why are they not speaking up? Mainly it is because
we MDs make the most money treating illnesses related to this imbalance
and can make nothing teaching the patient about it. Besides, how many
people want to go to the bother to learn what is in this note??? The
dietitians excuse is that nearly all of their education is subsidized by
organizations like the National Dairy Council. Just think what a hit the
dairy industry would take if everyone knew that dairy was a poor source
of calcium!!
A majority of the things I listed in my original note ( plus others not
so closely associated) greatly improved (or disappeared completely)
simply by people TOTALLY eliminating dairy from their diets for a month
or so. The criteria for selecting which patients may be helped this way
has been known (by those who cared to learn) for more than 40 years.
The better job I did selecting those people for whom I thought the effort
was justified, the the higher the % who got better. Milk is "nature's
perfect food" for cows, not for humans. Human milk is "nature's perfect
food" for humans.
For those interested in trying this, without knowledgable professional
supervision or advice, the reason for TOTAL eliminationn is that this
seems to be mainly an immunological reaction. That means that the
slightest trace will keep the reaction going forever--just like an
immunization. For those who are successful in TOTAL elimination, if
they do not see some results in a month, forget it (The majority of
results will be evident in about 3 months.). If there ARE results worth
the bother, total elimination for at least 6 months is needed for the
immune system to settle down enough for them to again try a little & see
if the problem they were trying to improve comes back. Most people can
handle traces after this long but some never can again. 6-12 months is
the usual time it takes for the majority of people to lose their
hypersensitivity.
I hope you will consider carrying on any further communication about this
on the HEDIR since, if you have these questions, so must many others.
Walt Stoll, MD
On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:54:32 -0500 (EST) aldingce@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU
writes:
>
>I read your message with interest. I would like to ask you some
>further
>questions:
> What food(s) do you recommend to your patients as a substitute
>for "commercial dairy products"?
> What in particular are the changes that you have observed in
>your
>patients that eliminated all commercial dairy products?
>Thanks.
>
>Carmen Aldinger
>MPH Candidate
>Yale University
>367 Cedar Street, New Haven, CT 06510
>Tel. 1-203-436-2207
>Fax 1-203-785-3835
>Email aldingce@biomed.med.yale.edu
>
>On Sat, 31 Jan 1998, walt stoll wrote:
>
>> **
>> ** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>> ** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>> **
>>
>> Dear Margo,
>>
>> I was born & raised on a dairy farm. My brother still milks 1000
>cows
>> every 8 hours--a typical milk factory in Ohio. My entire
>professional
>> life has been dedicated to patient education and the last 17+ of
>those
>> years I knew SOMETHING about nutrition.
>>
>> I can tell you from personal & professional training & experience
>that
>> the National Dairy Council is one of the worst sources of
>nutritional
>> information you could find. It is a lobbying arm of the propaganda
>mill
>> that is the dairy association. Since they finance much of the
>dietetic
>> training in the country, you can be sure what most dietitians "know"
>> about milk & dairy products. The same is true of the meat industry
>and
>> the agricultural department. Look for a Nutritionist.
>>
>> For starters: cows' milk is one of the poorest sources of calcium on
>the
>> planet, is responsible for a very large % of the antibiotic
>resistant
>> bacteria we are hearing so much about right now, a major cause of
>type 1
>> diabetes, the cause of more than 95% of recurrent ear infections in
>> children, a major cause of behavior problems in children, perhaps
>the
>> most important single cause of the increase in atherosclerotic
>arterial
>> disease (the cause of nearly all coronaries & strokes) this century
>in
>> the USA, a major cause of panic attacks & depression in adults,
>chronic
>> intestinal inflammation--I could go on for longer than you are
>likely
>> willing to listen.
>>
>> However, I do have to mention one more problem with cows' milk as it
>is
>> produced in this country: It is loaded with hormones--all of which
>have
>> been shown to contribute to many chronic disease conditions in our
>aging
>> population: cancer, arthritis, atherosclerosis, hypertension,
>> dysautonomia, immunological problems, etc.
>>
>> Since you are obviously interested in nutrition & helping others, I
>would
>> suggest you start at least supplementing your knowledge from places
>other
>> than the National Dairy Council who will do their best to direct you
>away
>> from these facts. In this regard they are EXACTLY like the tobacco
>> companies over the past 50+ years. You can start with your local
>> library. Much of this information has been available for more than
>50
>> years. I have seen the dramatic results of eliminating commercial
>dairy
>> products in my patients.
>>
>> The national Dairy Council has one of the most powerful lobbies in
>> congress. It has even been exempted from putting on the lable what
>they
>> have added to dairy products--the only organization exempted. They
>> successfully lobbied to keep off the lable whether the product came
>from
>> growth hormone produced milk. Within 20 years growth hormone will
>be
>> illegal for producing milk. In the meantime, 260,000,000 people
>will be
>> exposed to what is known around the world to increase breast & colon
>> cancer at the very least--without their knowledge or consent AND
>with no
>> controls.
>>
>> Knowing what I know, I could not resist sending this to you. I
>hope,
>> when you have a lot more facts, you will share what you have learned
>with
>> the the HEDIR participants.
>>
>> Walt Stoll, MD
>>
>> On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:48:19 -0800 Margo Harris
>> writes:
>> >**
>> >** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>> >** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>> >**
>> >
>> >I'm not usually in to testimonials. But Mary Arnold's teaching aid
>> >from
>> >the Dairy Council, and my suggestion to Brian a few days ago that
>he
>> >review the Dairy Council preschool program, Chef Combo, made me
>write.
>> >I've relied on Dairy Council materials for more than 20 years. The
>> >state councils and the National Dairy Council are a strong source
>of
>> >quality materials and high quality educators. In fact, when some
>> >argue
>> >about needing a CHES to be a health educator, the professionals
>I've
>> >known at different dairy councils come to mind. A dairy council
>> >professional comes to my college class to cover nutrition
>essentials,
>> >better than I ever could. No CHES, but they are the nutrition
>> >education
>> >experts.
>> >
>> >The Dairy Council, both state and national, pay attention to health
>> >education trends, policy, etc. Nationally they have worked to
>> >understand, link existing materials, and develop new materials that
>> >match the Healthy People objectives. In our state in public
>schools,
>> >we
>> >teach to what we call the EALRS = essential academic learning
>> >requirements. In print materials and on their Web site, the
>> >Washington
>> >Dairy Council has shown how to teach nutrition and link lessons and
>> >information to the EALRs.
>> >
>> >For educators with low or no budgets, the Council is also an
>option.
>> >In
>> >our state, all teachers receive $15 worth of free materials each
>> >calendar year. We're offered a high quality Web site with an
>> >interactive nutrition game. You need ShockWave for the full
>effect,
>> >but
>> >try it out at http://www.eatsmart.org If you win the game in under
>> >five
>> >minutes, you get a free copy of the Dairy Council game, AIM. The
>> >Dairy
>> >Council has a new publication available that would be of interest
>to
>> >educators who are working in osteoporosis. It's called,"Milk...For
>> >the
>> >Health of It: Questions & Answers about Milk, Milk Products and
>Their
>> >Role in Your Health." If you haven't tapped this resource, contact
>> >your
>> >state Dairy Council and get their materials catalog. I've used
>> >Council
>> >Web sites in Florida, Washington and the National site in my
>classes,
>> >and the students have always rated the sites and the print
>materials
>> >highly. Nope, I don't get any discount or any kickbacks! Happy
>> >Weekend. Margo
>> >
>> >Margo Harris
>> >Harris Training & Consulting Services
>> >Seattle, WA
>> >Email: htcs@halcyon.com
>> >Web: http://www.htcs.com/
>> >
>>
>>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>>
>
>
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------------------------------
#187
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:53:34 -0800
From: "Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES"
Subject: National Dairy Council and Walt Stoll
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Margo,
It's good that you let Walt know that you feel that he publically
embarrassed you, but I am not sure that you need to defend your
actions, teaching methods or personal habits. Walt is very dogmatic
about his position and his evidence, and he may know quite a bit from
his perspective, but I still say there's not much sound epidemiologic
evidence to support it, yet.
There is evidence that milk is helpful, however. For example, the
DASH study (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) was a randomized
clinical trial, the results of which are now adopted by the Joint
National Committee issuing guidelines for hypertension management. In
that study, the researchers found that eating 9-10 fruits and
vegetables a day and two servings of lowfat or nonfat dairy products
(while lowering meat consumption)successfully lowered BP as well as
antihypertensive medications, and better than eating 9-10 fruits and
veges alone. Nonfat milk also has a high BV (biological value)and its
whey enhances the immune system.
Yes, it can cause allergies and many adults are lactose intolerant.
There are ways of dealing with both. There are other examples as well.
Blanket statements about milk do not tell the whole story - either
positive or negative, and as a health educator, I refuse to see only
one side. Our clients deserve the right to make the choices for
themselves.
Take care.
===
Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES
Health Education Coordinator
Kaiser Permanente, Mid-Atlantic States
Company Email: michele.goldschmidt@kp.org
Private Email: michele_goldschmidt@rocketmail.com
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------------------------------
#188
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:07:57 -0600
From: "William B. Cissell"
Subject: Incautious Comment
**
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** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
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Walt,
While I support your position that the National Dairy
Council is heavily influenced by its source of funding and mission
to support the American dairy industry, I find your statement
about the USDA being paid by the American dairy industry both
inaccurate and misleading. The USDA is a federal agency that
derives its funding from the US Congress. While you can accurately
make the analogy between the lobbying of the tobacco industry
and that of the dairy industry to influence federal legislation
(which you did not do), you cannot with any accuracy say that
the USDA is being financed by the dairy industry.
While I believe you are unlikely to be sued by the dairy
industry of Texas for disparaging an agricultural product as
Oprah is, you have this risk under the law. Unless the Texas
law gets struck for being a violation of free speech (which
many hope will be the eventual benefit of the lawsuit against
Oprah), your communicating disparaging remarks about the
dairy industry and its products to individuals in Texas makes
you a potential defendent in a lawsuit. My first comment
about the analogy was "tongue in check." However, you
may want to be a little more circumspect when communicating
your views in a forum that includes recipients in Texas.
This message was sent to the entire list because I
believe the message to Walt is of interest to a much broader
audience.
Bill D_Cissell@venus.twu.edu
------------------------------
#189
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:28:09 EST
From: Meryl Cozart
Subject: my lefthanded request
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Dear Colleagues:
Thank you to those of you who e-mailed, reposted, or somehow forwarded the
fable and questions. If anyone would like a copy, please feel free to contact
me.
By the way, and I almost hate to get into this discussion, but my 9-year old
son has been a lifelong asthmatic (diagnosed at 4 months) and, whenever he has
a respiratory problem, his docs have suggested that he ingest no dairy
products at all. Just a thought.
Meryl Cozart, MA, CHES
Morgan State University
Public Health Planning Program
Baltimore, Maryland
------------------------------
#190
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:20:21 -0800
From: Margo Harris
Subject: Women's Health Site
**
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I apologize if this is a repeat, but I'd include the Mayo Health Oasis
at http://www.mayohealth.org/ Click on Women's Health and it takes you
to the Women's Health Resource Center. I found the information there
useful, including the interactive quizzes. There's one on estrogen that
I followed. The answers are useful, with links to even more
information. Generally a women's health topic is on the "New this Week"
feature on the home page. There's an article on chlamydia this week.
The links to additional information are often additional Mayo Clinic
generated information, although I've found some JAMA references and
references to other sources. Generally the information is very
readable. Margo
Margo Harris
Harris Training & Consulting Services
Seattle, WA
Email: htcs@halcyon.com
Web: http://www.htcs.com/
------------------------------
#191
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:24:15 -0800
From: Margo Harris
Subject: Milk Musings and Confessions
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
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I couldn't quite figure out the furor about milk, when I thought all I'd
said was I liked Dairy Council materials. I'd actually forgotten that I
mentioned the new Dairy Council publication, "Milk...For The Health of
It." For the record, I went back and re-read the booklet. I was
interested to see what if any citations or references I'd find. Well I
found a few to:
American Academy of Pediatrics
Food and Nutrition Board, Institute of Medicine, National Academy of
Sciences
Family Economics and Nutrition Review
FDA
Not to mention numerous references and suggestions to talk to your
doctor.
I don't rely solely on the Dairy Council for nutrition information. But
then I don't teach nutrition education, counsel people about whether to
drink or not drink milk, or promote cow's milk as the best food choice.
Based on data, I understand we have not been that successful at getting
people to breastfeed (i.e. use human milk), or breastfeed for a long
period of time. My friends/colleagues with infants seem to use formula
of some kind. As a nonmother, I haven't paid much attention to what
infants are fed or what they drink, and I'm not familiar with infant
formula content!
I do use Dairy Council school education materials. They are attractive
and attract children. They are carefully developed, cross the learning
styles, engage students of all ages, and many are written with careful
attention to literacy and cultural diversity. Within limits, the Dairy
Council has worked to integrate technology in nutrition teaching with
newer CD-ROM products and an increasing number of state-level Web sites.
I have not detected an emphasis on milk or milk products, rather I have
detected an emphasis on choice. I have appreciated the emphasis on
behavior--choosing food, recognizing even calculating correct serving
size, and the number of servings to eat each day. The materials
encourage children to experiment with cooking, with an emphasis on
safety, i.e. no oven/microwave when parents are not present, food
safety, cleanliness, etc. They encourage tasting a wide variety of
foods and learning more about your food habits through diaries or
journals, and they explore food choices of other cultures. They test
your nutrition knowledge with a number of games, and even offer you a
deck of playing cards with nutrition messages on them. The materials
offer schools an affordable, supplement to nutrition education.
I have a wonderful nutritionist (who holds a DrPH from Loma Linda and is
a SOPHE member!) at the University of Washington, who I rely on quite a
bit for the nutrition content in my health education course. She and I
also exchange Web site suggestions and review sites to use with
students, again offering a range of sources for nutrition information
from the Center for Science in the Public Interest (talk about high
literacy!) to a wonderful site we've recently found, Kids Food CyberClub
at http://www.kidsfood.org/ a project of the Connecticut Association for
Human Services funded by Kaiser Permanente. The educational content is
developed by Monica Belyea, MPH, RD, and the site is targeted to 3rd to
5th grade students. For a fun WebQuest, check out Nutrition Sleuths on
that site. The site also includes content on the issue of hunger,
children understanding hunger and helping other children who are hungry.
I suspect we all gather the information we find relevant and make our
own choices about what we eat or drink. Just as I suspect we all have
our own biases. Actually, I think everyone has an agenda--paid or
unpaid. As a health educator, I know I do. Margo
Margo Harris
Harris Training & Consulting Services
Seattle, WA
Email: htcs@halcyon.com
Web: http://www.htcs.com/
------------------------------
#192
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:53:34 EST
From: "Mardak, Wendy"
Subject: Peer Evaluation?
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
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Has anyone out there ever taken part in "peer evaluation?" Any models you
would suggest?
Wendy J. Mardak, B.S., Education Specialist
Department of Human Resource Development
Gundersen Lutheran Medical Center
1910 South Ave.
La Crosse, WI 54601
DIRECT TEL: 608-791-6867 FAX: 608-791-5594
NET: wmardak@lhl.gundluth.org
------------------------------
#193
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:28:23 -0700
From: Mark Fulop
Subject: Re: Peer Evaluation?
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
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Dear All:
I wanted to let you know that I have changed jobs and am no longer working at
San Diego State University's Student Health Services and College Health 2000
projects. I have taken a very exciting job as the Project Director for the
South Coast Regional Tobacco Board, which is a State tobacco-tax-funded,
training and technical assistance project serving Orange and San Diego
Counties. It is a move that will allow me to do more health communication
related things and it offers me the opportunity to work in a content area that
I have a passion for. Please Note my new email address as my SDSU account
will be shut down someday soon.
I am also teaching a course at SDSU this semester which I invite you also to
peek at. Development of Instrcutional Materials. Not much on-line yet but
watch over the weeks: http://edweb.sdsu.edu/Courses/EDTEC532/syllabus.html
Finally, I know this is Mark's list and he can do anything he wants but is
anyone else irritated by the ad that appears on all email messages? I don't
mind the URL link but does it have to be 3 lines on each message? Could it be
truncated to something like this:
** NEW Health Education e-journal http://131.230.221.136/iejhe **
Only a thought
Mark Fulop, MPH, CHES
Project Director
hcom@sd.znet.com
------------------------------
#194
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:04:34 -0800
From: Renee Drellishak
Subject: Dairy and Walt Stoll
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Walt,
since you said you would feel "grateful" to people who point out your
mistakes, I thought I'd oblige:
1) "Personal research" and anecdotal evidence are insufficient support for
such sweeping claims. Saying "I won't do your homework for you" to a
sincere and legitimate request for more information is evasive. You
can either provide citations for well-designed studies or you can't.
Which is it?
2) Publicly posting replies to personal emails is a gross breach of
netiquette. Unless this was done with permission, you owe both Margo and
Michelle an apology.
I post this to the entire group because I think we should *all* be held
accountable for a) supporting our assertions, particularly when of a
controversial nature; and b) for observing proper netiquette with fellow
professionals on the list. (For Arlene Rindaldi's Netiquette homepage go
to http://www.fau.edu/rinaldi/net/index.htm)
************************************************************************
Renee Drellishak, MPH
Manager of Health Promotion and Development "...the purpose of life
Hall Health Primary Care Center is to love and to learn."
University of Washington
(206) 616-8476 --Anne Rice
reneedre@u.washington.edu Servant of the Bones
**************************************************************************
------------------------------
#195
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:53:32 -0600
From: "Mark J. Kittleson, Ph.D."
Subject: a question
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
I'm really embarrassed at having to ask this question, but has David Satcher
been confirmed by the senate to be the Surgeon General? If so, when was that.
__________________________________________
Mark J. Kittleson, Ph.D.
Home Page: http://131.230.221.136
HEDIR Home Page: http://131.230.221.136/hedir/menu.html
The International Electronic Journal of Health Education:
http://131.230.221.136/iejhe/
"Remember when high-tech was figuring out which way to put the carbon paper in?"
------------------------------
#196
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:59:59 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Mail Delivery Subsystem : Returned mail:
User unknown
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
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----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
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----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to saluki-mail.siu.edu.:
>>> RCPT To:
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550 HEDIR@siu.edu... User unknown
--LAAAA19241.886437160/x6.boston.juno.com
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Received: (from waltstoll@juno.com)
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EST
To: ranklind@isu.edu
Cc: HEDIR@siu.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:17:03 +0000
Subject: Re: Dairy Council
Message-ID: <19980202.101742.14158.7.waltstoll@juno.com>
References: <76CC57B7601@fs.isu.edu>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,13-17,19-54
From: waltstoll@juno.com (walt stoll)
Thanks, Linda!
My reason for even starting this "controversy" was that I hated to see
health educators getting only one side of the equation. Your note
contributes to that aim. I am very gratified to see, here on the HEDIR,
that there ARE dietitians that know better. In my practice in KY (for
the 20 years that I knew something about nutrition) they were few & far
between. Beth Loiselle, RD (one of my former patients who regained her
health from my advice when she was already an RD) is one of the notable
exceptions. She has written a book about how to get well just through
nutrition (based upon her experience with my advice). The title is "The
Healing Power of Whole Foods" and still is the best resource I know of
for people to experience this for themselves. It has just come out in a
new edition. Call (800) 870-5378 for information.
Walt
On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:23:49 -0700 (MST) ranklind@isu.edu (Linda Rankin)
writes:
>Walt,
>Thanks for sharing the other side of this issue with the HEDIR. I
>don't
>feel quite as strongly as you about the Dairy Council, but just about!
> I
>caution my dietetics students about Dairy Council materials and the
>need to
>critically evaluate them AND to realize what the Dairy Council's
>agenda is.
>
>
>There are many dietitians out there who are informed about these
>issues.
>Although the Dairy Council sponsors speakers at a variety of
>conferences, I
>wouldn't say they "finance much of the dietetic education."
>
>Have a good day,
>Linda
>
>
>******************************************
>Linda Rankin,PhD,RD,FADA
>Assistant Professor
>Idaho State University
>Department of Health & Nutrition Sciences
>Box 8109
>Pocatello, ID 83209-8109
>Phone: (208) 236-3054
>FAX: (208) 236-4903
>e-mail: ranklind@isu.edu
>******************************************
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
#197
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:57:57 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Mail Delivery Subsystem : Returned mail:
User unknown
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
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Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:15:15 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802021615.LAAAA11329@x6.boston.juno.com>
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The original message was received at Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:04:50 -0500 (EST)
from waltstoll@juno.com
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
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----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to saluki-mail.siu.edu.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 ... User unknown
550 HEDIR@siu.edu... User unknown
--LAAAA11329.886436115/x6.boston.juno.com
Content-Type: message/delivery-status
Reporting-MTA: dns; x6.boston.juno.com
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Received: (from waltstoll@juno.com)
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EST
To: Merylsc@aol.com
Cc: HEDIR@siu.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:57:53 +0000
Subject: Re: my lefthanded request
Message-ID: <19980202.100811.14158.4.waltstoll@juno.com>
References: <6a6a1f0a.34d5131b@aol.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4,8-9,16-17,23-53
From: waltstoll@juno.com (walt stoll)
Thanks, Meryl.
My clinical experience has been that your docs are giving you good
advice. Certainly cows' milk is not the only contributing factor in
asthma. However, it is a common one.
For those wanting to actually get rid of the susceptibility to asthma, I
would suggest they read about Candida-Related Syndrome and Leaky Gut
Syndrome (LGS). LGS has a 2 page article in the Newsweek 11/17/98 issue.
You can look it up.
It has been suggested by Michele that the whey in milk improves the
immune system. While tthat might be so, it is like the claims of "Total"
(the cereal). They refine the grains (take out more than 48 nutrients
found in a whole grain) then replace about 10 of them at 100% of the RDAs
& use that to give the impression that is is somehow superior to the
whole grain. Even the government is rapidly retreating from its support
of the RDAs. What about the missing 38+ nutrients?
Milk is like that, there ARE things that can be shown that are good about
cows' milk. However, the negative effects so far outstrip the positives
that there is no comparison. My reason for even starting this discussion
was that I hated to see health educators only being given the positives
by a special interest group. I make no money by sharing this infomation.
I have no ax to grind. Why would I put ot false information?
Walt
On Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:28:09 EST Meryl Cozart writes:
>**
>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>**
>
>Dear Colleagues:
>
>Thank you to those of you who e-mailed, reposted, or somehow forwarded
>the
>fable and questions. If anyone would like a copy, please feel free to
>contact
>me.
>
>By the way, and I almost hate to get into this discussion, but my
>9-year old
>son has been a lifelong asthmatic (diagnosed at 4 months) and,
>whenever he has
>a respiratory problem, his docs have suggested that he ingest no dairy
>products at all. Just a thought.
>
>Meryl Cozart, MA, CHES
>Morgan State University
>Public Health Planning Program
>Baltimore, Maryland
>
_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
#198
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:58:24 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Mail Delivery Subsystem : Returned mail:
User unknown
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
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Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:15:21 -0500 (EST)
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The original message was received at Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:04:49 -0500 (EST)
from waltstoll@juno.com
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
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----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to saluki-mail.siu.edu.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 ... User unknown
550 HEDIR@siu.edu... User unknown
--LAAAA11329.886436121/x6.boston.juno.com
Content-Type: message/delivery-status
Reporting-MTA: dns; x6.boston.juno.com
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Remote-MTA: DNS; saluki-mail.siu.edu
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 ... User unknown
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Received: (from waltstoll@juno.com)
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EST
To: D_CISSELL@VENUS.TWU.EDU
Cc: HEDIR@siu.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:57:22 +0000
Subject: Re: Incautious Comment
Message-ID: <19980202.100810.14158.3.waltstoll@juno.com>
References: <01IT2NNPXJW600019W@venus.twu.edu>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-6,12-13,18-26,28-64
From: waltstoll@juno.com (walt stoll)
Dear Bill,
I appreciate your sharing your agreement that "the National Dairy Council
is Heavily influenced by its source of funding and mission to support the
American dairy industry--". However, regarding the USDA, I saw what
happened from my father's dairy farm all my life.
You DO know that the dairy industry is one of the heaviest lobbies in
Waxhington. You make mention of it in your excellent note as well. THIS
is how the congress is influenced to make policy for the USDA. Those who
control the pursestrings....... I think it is splitting hairs mighty
fine to say that the dairy industry does not have a powerful influence on
USDA policy. I leave it up to the readers of the HEDIR.
The day I have to be careful sharing my opinion about anything is the day
I lose my faith in the US Constitution's guarantee of "free speech".
Oprah will win her day in court & the beef industry will wish they had
not ever done such a foolish thing. If things don't work out like that
we are ALL in trouble.
Bill, I too think this kind of communication is best done publically.
I appreciate your taking the time to write your opinion.
Walt
On Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:07:57 -0600 "William B. Cissell"
writes:
>**
>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>**
>
>Walt,
>
> While I support your position that the National Dairy
>Council is heavily influenced by its source of funding and mission
>to support the American dairy industry, I find your statement
>about the USDA being paid by the American dairy industry both
>inaccurate and misleading. The USDA is a federal agency that
>derives its funding from the US Congress. While you can accurately
>make the analogy between the lobbying of the tobacco industry
>and that of the dairy industry to influence federal legislation
>(which you did not do), you cannot with any accuracy say that
>the USDA is being financed by the dairy industry.
>
> While I believe you are unlikely to be sued by the dairy
>industry of Texas for disparaging an agricultural product as
>Oprah is, you have this risk under the law. Unless the Texas
>law gets struck for being a violation of free speech (which
>many hope will be the eventual benefit of the lawsuit against
>Oprah), your communicating disparaging remarks about the
>dairy industry and its products to individuals in Texas makes
>you a potential defendent in a lawsuit. My first comment
>about the analogy was "tongue in check." However, you
>may want to be a little more circumspect when communicating
>your views in a forum that includes recipients in Texas.
>
> This message was sent to the entire list because I
>believe the message to Walt is of interest to a much broader
>audience.
>
> Bill D_Cissell@venus.twu.edu
>
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------------------------------
#199
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:59:26 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Mail Delivery Subsystem : Returned mail:
User unknown
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
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Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
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The original message was received at Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:04:49 -0500 (EST)
from waltstoll@juno.com
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
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----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to saluki-mail.siu.edu.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 ... User unknown
550 HEDIR@siu.edu... User unknown
--LAAAA11329.886436290/x6.boston.juno.com
Content-Type: message/delivery-status
Reporting-MTA: dns; x6.boston.juno.com
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Remote-MTA: DNS; saluki-mail.siu.edu
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 250 KAA40554 Message accepted for delivery
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Received: (from waltstoll@juno.com)
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EST
To: smassad@javanet.com
Cc: HEDIR@siu.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:33:21 +0000
Subject: Re: Dairy Council
Message-ID: <19980202.100810.14158.1.waltstoll@juno.com>
References: <01bd2d96$7c97a820$LocalHost@blue>
<19980131.080855.14238.0.waltstoll@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,10-11,15-19,21-233
From: waltstoll@juno.com (walt stoll)
Dear Susan,
Thanks for your note! I couldn't agree with you more. I especially
appreciate your recommendation about the CSPI. I have been a member
since they started.
My only comment about CSPI is that they are VERY conservative about what
they print. They know a lot more than they offer the public. Perhaps
that is the way it needs to be done. They eventually get around to what
I know & practiced for so many years. There seems to be about a 5 year
delay.
A lot of the negative response I have had on the HEDIR about my initial
note IS because it is a lot to digest all at once. It took me 20 years.
I know that there are a lot more professionals like you out there. I
hope they will speak up.
Namaste` Walt
On Sun, 01 Feb 1998 16:36:44 -0500 Susan massad
writes:
>I feel a bit compelled to throw in my 2 cents worth about the Dairy
>Council debate. Many health consumers look to the Dairy Council for
>expert nutitional information. I'm a Registered Dietitian, and
>although
>I have found a few of their materials useful, for the most part I
>would
>definitely not consider the Dairy Council a reliable source of
>nutrition
>information. Their materials are heavily biased - as Dr. Stoll points
>out. They give dairy products all of the purported benefits of good
>health & ignore the downside of dairy consumption. One of their
>brochures on lactose intolerance has a statement recommending "trying
>at
>least small amounts of milk products..." Definitely not a wise idea
>for
>the 25% or more of us who are lactose intolerant. Also, their booklet
>geared towards adolescents, entitled "Food, Exercise, and You," lists
>ways to lose weight, maintain weight, and to gain weight. The photo
>which accompanies the "to lose weight" suggestion shows a young woman
>who is just barely, and I mean BARELY overweight (in fact by most
>standards, she would be considered average). We wonder why young
>woman
>have so much anxiety about weight & body image. In any case, I
>agree
>that there is bias here.
>The Center for Science in the Public Interest's publication "Nutrition
>Action Healthletter" is a pretty good source of nutrition info. for
>the
>general public. Also, a recent website I checked out seemed like a
>good
>source of general nutrition info. (www.healthfinder.com).
>
>Susan Massad
>Springfield College
>
>
>walt stoll wrote:
>>
>> **
>> ** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>> ** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>> **
>>
>> Dear Margo,
>>
>> I was born & raised on a dairy farm. My brother still milks 1000
>cows
>> every 8 hours--a typical milk factory in Ohio. My entire
>professional
>> life has been dedicated to patient education and the last 17+ of
>those
>> years I knew SOMETHING about nutrition.
>>
>> I can tell you from personal & professional training & experience
>that
>> the National Dairy Council is one of the worst sources of
>nutritional
>> information you could find. It is a lobbying arm of the propaganda
>mill
>> that is the dairy association. Since they finance much of the
>dietetic
>> training in the country, you can be sure what most dietitians "know"
>> about milk & dairy products. The same is true of the meat industry
>and
>> the agricultural department. Look for a Nutritionist.
>>
>> For starters: cows' milk is one of the poorest sources of calcium on
>the
>> planet, is responsible for a very large % of the antibiotic
>resistant
>> bacteria we are hearing so much about right now, a major cause of
>type 1
>> diabetes, the cause of more than 95% of recurrent ear infections in
>> children, a major cause of behavior problems in children, perhaps
>the
>> most important single cause of the increase in atherosclerotic
>arterial
>> disease (the cause of nearly all coronaries & strokes) this century
>in
>> the USA, a major cause of panic attacks & depression in adults,
>chronic
>> intestinal inflammation--I could go on for longer than you are
>likely
>> willing to listen.
>>
>> However, I do have to mention one more problem with cows' milk as it
>is
>> produced in this country: It is loaded with hormones--all of which
>have
>> been shown to contribute to many chronic disease conditions in our
>aging
>> population: cancer, arthritis, atherosclerosis, hypertension,
>> dysautonomia, immunological problems, etc.
>>
>> Since you are obviously interested in nutrition & helping others, I
>would
>> suggest you start at least supplementing your knowledge from places
>other
>> than the National Dairy Council who will do their best to direct you
>away
>> from these facts. In this regard they are EXACTLY like the tobacco
>> companies over the past 50+ years. You can start with your local
>> library. Much of this information has been available for more than
>50
>> years. I have seen the dramatic results of eliminating commercial
>dairy
>> products in my patients.
>>
>> The national Dairy Council has one of the most powerful lobbies in
>> congress. It has even been exempted from putting on the lable what
>they
>> have added to dairy products--the only organization exempted. They
>> successfully lobbied to keep off the lable whether the product came
>from
>> growth hormone produced milk. Within 20 years growth hormone will
>be
>> illegal for producing milk. In the meantime, 260,000,000 people
>will be
>> exposed to what is known around the world to increase breast & colon
>> cancer at the very least--without their knowledge or consent AND
>with no
>> controls.
>>
>> Knowing what I know, I could not resist sending this to you. I
>hope,
>> when you have a lot more facts, you will share what you have learned
>with
>> the the HEDIR participants.
>>
>> Walt Stoll, MD
>>
>> On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:48:19 -0800 Margo Harris
>> writes:
>> >**
>> >** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>> >** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>> >**
>> >
>> >I'm not usually in to testimonials. But Mary Arnold's teaching aid
>> >from
>> >the Dairy Council, and my suggestion to Brian a few days ago that
>he
>> >review the Dairy Council preschool program, Chef Combo, made me
>write.
>> >I've relied on Dairy Council materials for more than 20 years. The
>> >state councils and the National Dairy Council are a strong source
>of
>> >quality materials and high quality educators. In fact, when some
>> >argue
>> >about needing a CHES to be a health educator, the professionals
>I've
>> >known at different dairy councils come to mind. A dairy council
>> >professional comes to my college class to cover nutrition
>essentials,
>> >better than I ever could. No CHES, but they are the nutrition
>> >education
>> >experts.
>> >
>> >The Dairy Council, both state and national, pay attention to health
>> >education trends, policy, etc. Nationally they have worked to
>> >understand, link existing materials, and develop new materials that
>> >match the Healthy People objectives. In our state in public
>schools,
>> >we
>> >teach to what we call the EALRS = essential academic learning
>> >requirements. In print materials and on their Web site, the
>> >Washington
>> >Dairy Council has shown how to teach nutrition and link lessons and
>> >information to the EALRs.
>> >
>> >For educators with low or no budgets, the Council is also an
>option.
>> >In
>> >our state, all teachers receive $15 worth of free materials each
>> >calendar year. We're offered a high quality Web site with an
>> >interactive nutrition game. You need ShockWave for the full
>effect,
>> >but
>> >try it out at http://www.eatsmart.org If you win the game in under
>> >five
>> >minutes, you get a free copy of the Dairy Council game, AIM. The
>> >Dairy
>> >Council has a new publication available that would be of interest
>to
>> >educators who are working in osteoporosis. It's called,"Milk...For
>> >the
>> >Health of It: Questions & Answers about Milk, Milk Products and
>Their
>> >Role in Your Health." If you haven't tapped this resource, contact
>> >your
>> >state Dairy Council and get their materials catalog. I've used
>> >Council
>> >Web sites in Florida, Washington and the National site in my
>classes,
>> >and the students have always rated the sites and the print
>materials
>> >highly. Nope, I don't get any discount or any kickbacks! Happy
>> >Weekend. Margo
>> >
>> >Margo Harris
>> >Harris Training & Consulting Services
>> >Seattle, WA
>> >Email: htcs@halcyon.com
>> >Web: http://www.htcs.com/
>> >
>>
>>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
--LAAAA11329.886436290/x6.boston.juno.com--
--------- End forwarded message ----------
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
#200
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:58:59 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Mail Delivery Subsystem : Returned mail:
User unknown
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem
To: waltstoll@juno.com
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:15:50 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802021615.LAAAA11329@x6.boston.juno.com>
This is a MIME-encapsulated message
--LAAAA11329.886436150/x6.boston.juno.com
The original message was received at Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:04:49 -0500 (EST)
from waltstoll@juno.com
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
HEDIR@siu.edu
----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to saluki-mail.siu.edu.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 ... User unknown
550 HEDIR@siu.edu... User unknown
--LAAAA11329.886436150/x6.boston.juno.com
Content-Type: message/delivery-status
Reporting-MTA: dns; x6.boston.juno.com
Arrival-Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:04:49 -0500 (EST)
Final-Recipient: rfc822; HEDIR@siu.edu
Action: failed
Status: 2.0.0
Remote-MTA: DNS; saluki-mail.siu.edu
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 250 KAA40554 Message accepted for delivery
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:15:50 -0500 (EST)
--LAAAA11329.886436150/x6.boston.juno.com
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Received: (from waltstoll@juno.com)
by x6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id LtA06278; Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:04:49
EST
To: michele_goldschmidt@ROCKETMAIL.COM
Cc: HEDIR@siu.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:33:57 +0000
Subject: Re: National Dairy Council and Walt Stoll
Message-ID: <19980202.100810.14158.2.waltstoll@juno.com>
References: <19980201215334.25315.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,8-9,14-17,24-25,30-34,36-91
From: waltstoll@juno.com (walt stoll)
Dear Michele,
Thanks for your note. There IS truth in it.
This response is not to denigrate anything you had to say.
I have faith that any intelligent person has the right (and the ability)
to make up their own minds once they have enough data. Toward that end,
I can at least give those interested a starting place.
Although Don Read's & my article in the premier issue of the
"International Electronic Journal of Health Education (IEJHE) is barely
even tangentially about milk problems, there is a wealth of resources in
the bibliography for the paper that lead to more than anyone would want
to know on the subject.
Michele mentioned the journal in her original note.
The address of this free journal is http://131.230.221.136/IEJHE
When they ask you for an ID use either read or stoll When they ask you
for a password use either 7331 (with read) or walt (with stoll). That
way you don't have to get your own & it saves you time. Our article is
the first one in the journal & is entitled "Healthy Behavior: The
Implications of a Holistic Paradigm of Thinking Through Mindbody
Research". We appreciate any feedback.
I just had to mention, for those who are looking for "research articles"
that most people who eat 9-10 fruits & vegetables a day and reduce meat
consumption will see benefits in reducing their blood pressure. I doubt
very much that a case can be made that the inclusion of the milk had any
beneficial effect.
Walt
On Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:53:34 -0800 "Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES"
writes:
>**
>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>**
>
>Margo,
>
>It's good that you let Walt know that you feel that he publically
>embarrassed you, but I am not sure that you need to defend your
>actions, teaching methods or personal habits. Walt is very dogmatic
>about his position and his evidence, and he may know quite a bit from
>his perspective, but I still say there's not much sound epidemiologic
>evidence to support it, yet.
>
>There is evidence that milk is helpful, however. For example, the
>DASH study (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) was a randomized
>clinical trial, the results of which are now adopted by the Joint
>National Committee issuing guidelines for hypertension management. In
>that study, the researchers found that eating 9-10 fruits and
>vegetables a day and two servings of lowfat or nonfat dairy products
>(while lowering meat consumption)successfully lowered BP as well as
>antihypertensive medications, and better than eating 9-10 fruits and
>veges alone. Nonfat milk also has a high BV (biological value)and its
>whey enhances the immune system.
>
>Yes, it can cause allergies and many adults are lactose intolerant.
>There are ways of dealing with both. There are other examples as
>well.
>
>Blanket statements about milk do not tell the whole story - either
>positive or negative, and as a health educator, I refuse to see only
>one side. Our clients deserve the right to make the choices for
>themselves.
>
>Take care.
>
>
>===
>Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES
>Health Education Coordinator
>Kaiser Permanente, Mid-Atlantic States
>Company Email: michele.goldschmidt@kp.org
>Private Email: michele_goldschmidt@rocketmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
--LAAAA11329.886436150/x6.boston.juno.com--
--------- End forwarded message ----------
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
#201
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:50:52 -0500
From: Karen Diane Waller
Subject:
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Please tell me how I can get to a web site for your job openings. I have
graduate students wishing to view your faculty openings.
Thank you!
Karen Waller
------------------------------
#202
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:02:57 -0800
From: Renee Drellishak
Subject: Re: Dairy and Walt Stoll (fwd)
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Forwarded at the request of Walt Stoll (his computer or server appears to
be acting up.)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:15:39 +0000
From: walt stoll
To: reneedre@U.WASHINGTON.EDU
Subject: Re: Dairy and Walt Stoll
Dear Renee,
I would never take anything sent to me on the HEDIR personally. I am
surprised that adult people would.
To avoid anything like this in the future, I would auggest anyone
responding to anything I have to say on the HEDIR to include in their
note (IN CAPS) that they do not want any response to go on the HEDIR.
These people will not get any response at all from me. My goal in life
is to share what I know with as many people as possible. I do not have
the time or desire to do all this person by person. I already donate
more than 5 hours a day, 7 days a week, to giving free information on my
interactive website mainly because many people can learn at the same
time. This is a free service.
So far as my "not doing your homework for you" is concerned, I WILL at
least refer you to the very journal you mentioned below: The lead
article of that journal is by Don Read & I. There are a number of pages
of bibliography included that would give anyone desiring this kind of
information a lot more than they wanted. This paper is only the least bit
tangential to anything about milk and yet there is more documentaion than
you will want.
I can lead the horse to water-------------------------!
Good Luck! I appreciate your sharing the information in your note. I
had no idea that I needed permission, from HEDIR note responses to my
input, to respond in public. I have no need to upset anyone. I only
have a need to share information with people (as many as possible with
the time I have to spend) who want it.
I hope I have made my position clear. Anyone who does not want any
communication from me to be aired publically, need not respond to any
notes to me.
Walt
On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:04:34 -0800 Renee Drellishak
writes:
>**
>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>**
>
>Walt,
>
>since you said you would feel "grateful" to people who point out your
>mistakes, I thought I'd oblige:
>
>1) "Personal research" and anecdotal evidence are insufficient support
>for
>such sweeping claims. Saying "I won't do your homework for you" to a
>sincere and legitimate request for more information is evasive. You
>can either provide citations for well-designed studies or you can't.
>Which is it?
>
>2) Publicly posting replies to personal emails is a gross breach of
>netiquette. Unless this was done with permission, you owe both Margo
>and
>Michelle an apology.
>
>
>I post this to the entire group because I think we should *all* be
>held
>accountable for a) supporting our assertions, particularly when of a
>controversial nature; and b) for observing proper netiquette with
>fellow
>professionals on the list. (For Arlene Rindaldi's Netiquette homepage
>go
>to http://www.fau.edu/rinaldi/net/index.htm)
>
>
>************************************************************************
>
>Renee Drellishak, MPH
>Manager of Health Promotion and Development "...the purpose of
>life
>Hall Health Primary Care Center is to love and to
>learn."
>University of Washington
>(206) 616-8476 --Anne Rice
>reneedre@u.washington.edu Servant of the Bones
>
>**************************************************************************
>
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
#203
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:33:45 -0800
From: "Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES"
Subject: Re: National Dairy Council and Walt Stoll
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Walt,
As I mentioned to Margo, the randomized groups were split into (1)9-10
fruits/veges, (2) the same with the addition of lowfat dairy ((3)as
well as a control "traditional" diet). BP reduced best when the dairy
was added. You can read all about the DASH study at a wonderful site:
http://dash.bwh.harvard.edu.
Michele
===
Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES
Health Education Coordinator
Kaiser Permanente, Mid-Atlantic States
Company Email: michele.goldschmidt@kp.org
Private Email: michele_goldschmidt@rocketmail.com
---walt stoll wrote:
>
> Dear Michele,
>
> Thanks for your note. There IS truth in it.
>
> This response is not to denigrate anything you had to say.
>
> I have faith that any intelligent person has the right (and the
ability)
> to make up their own minds once they have enough data. Toward that
end,
> I can at least give those interested a starting place.
>
> Although Don Read's & my article in the premier issue of the
> "International Electronic Journal of Health Education (IEJHE) is
barely
> even tangentially about milk problems, there is a wealth of
resources in
> the bibliography for the paper that lead to more than anyone would
want
> to know on the subject.
>
> Michele mentioned the journal in her original note.
>
> The address of this free journal is http://131.230.221.136/IEJHE
> When they ask you for an ID use either read or stoll When they ask
you
> for a password use either 7331 (with read) or walt (with stoll). That
> way you don't have to get your own & it saves you time. Our article
is
> the first one in the journal & is entitled "Healthy Behavior: The
> Implications of a Holistic Paradigm of Thinking Through Mindbody
> Research". We appreciate any feedback.
>
> I just had to mention, for those who are looking for "research
articles"
> that most people who eat 9-10 fruits & vegetables a day and reduce
meat
> consumption will see benefits in reducing their blood pressure. I
doubt
> very much that a case can be made that the inclusion of the milk had
any
> beneficial effect.
>
> Walt
>
>
> On Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:53:34 -0800 "Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES"
> writes:
> >**
> >** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
> >** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
> >**
> >
> >Margo,
> >
> >It's good that you let Walt know that you feel that he publically
> >embarrassed you, but I am not sure that you need to defend your
> >actions, teaching methods or personal habits. Walt is very dogmatic
> >about his position and his evidence, and he may know quite a bit from
> >his perspective, but I still say there's not much sound epidemiologic
> >evidence to support it, yet.
> >
> >There is evidence that milk is helpful, however. For example, the
> >DASH study (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) was a randomized
> >clinical trial, the results of which are now adopted by the Joint
> >National Committee issuing guidelines for hypertension management.
In
> >that study, the researchers found that eating 9-10 fruits and
> >vegetables a day and two servings of lowfat or nonfat dairy products
> >(while lowering meat consumption)successfully lowered BP as well as
> >antihypertensive medications, and better than eating 9-10 fruits and
> >veges alone. Nonfat milk also has a high BV (biological value)and
its
> >whey enhances the immune system.
> >
> >Yes, it can cause allergies and many adults are lactose intolerant.
> >There are ways of dealing with both. There are other examples as
> >well.
> >
> >Blanket statements about milk do not tell the whole story - either
> >positive or negative, and as a health educator, I refuse to see only
> >one side. Our clients deserve the right to make the choices for
> >themselves.
> >
> >Take care.
> >
> >
> >===
> >Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES
> >Health Education Coordinator
> >Kaiser Permanente, Mid-Atlantic States
> >Company Email: michele.goldschmidt@kp.org
> >Private Email: michele_goldschmidt@rocketmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________
> >DO YOU YAHOO!?
> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
#204
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:23:53 -0500
From: "Jack D. Osman"
Subject: Re: Dairy and Walt Stoll
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
I, too, felt uneasy with such brash display of certainty -- particularly
when one of the quotes I use for evaluating the reliability of nutrition
information states: "Most doctors have been taught nutrition by doctors
who were taught nutrition by doctors who made it up!" Or, how about Dr.
Jean Mayer's quote: "The average secretary knows just as much about
nutrition as the average doctor -- unless the secretary read a book."
When only 3% of medical doctors have had acourse in human nutrition --
no wonder we has sooo much misinformation being aired by MD's. Look at
all the junk books in weight control done by MDs. One was even banned
from practicing medicine in the pacific northwest because of his
nutrition antics!
--
Jack D. Osman, Ph.D., CHES
Professor of Health Science
Towson University
Towson, MD 21252
(410) 830-4222
e-mail: josman@towson.edu
home page: towson.edu/~osman
------------------------------
#205
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:17:41 -0600
From: Kathleen Welshimer
Subject: Alternative medicine
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Several individuals with an interest in alternative medicine have recently
approached me about obtaining MS or PhD degrees in health education, with a
concentration in alternative medicine. Their interests are varied:
hypnotherapy, herbal remedies, homeopathy, aura balancing.... We don't have
much to offer them at SIU, other than as a consumer issue in our consumer
health class. Given that even NIH is now looking at alternative medicine,
perhaps it is time for us in health ed. to become more active in the field.
I would be interested in hearing from those of you whose programs offer
courses dealing with alternative medicine (at either the grad or undergrad
level), including key topics. Do any of you have a special concentration in
this area? Is anyone aware of academic programs outside health ed. that
provide preparation in this alternative medicine? I'd be glad to share my
findings with fellow HEDIRs if there's an interest....
Thanks for your assistance.
Kathleen Welshimer, Ph.D., MSPH
Department of Health Education and Recreation
Southern Illinois University
Carbondale, IL 62901
Phone: 618-453-2777
E-mail: welshime@siu.edu
------------------------------
#206
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:12:16 +0200
From: Ansa Ojanlatva
Subject: Re: the Dairy
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
I have been reading only parts of this discussion and do not want to send a
long message. A couple of points.
First, there is beginning to be increasing evidence of allergic problems
with milk in adults, not only lactose intolerance.
Second, there's been public discussion about the problem with milk led by
nutritionists in excercise fields where they work with winning athletes.
There is a call for new and more accurate nutritional guidelines for
various groups. Calcium needs were being illustrated as an example, and
milk is being proposed as one problem area. Ansa Ojanlatva.
------------------------------
#207
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:51:51 -0500
From: Patricia Houston
Subject: Are we done yet?
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------ =_NextPart_001_01BD3078.97718550
Content-Type: text/plain
O.K.
I know I'm not the only one that feels this way...are we all done
bashing Walt on the HEDIR? I grant you that I don't believe it is
appropriate to respond to a personal message on the listserv, but I also
disapprove of the sarcasm that has accompanied some of the responses
sent to Walt.
I love that we now have the technology that allows us to communicate
from all parts of the world in such a short time frame, but with that
also comes the inability to sit face to face with another human being
and have a diplomatic conversation. Not being able to look into
someone's eyes during a discussion makes it much easier to 'bash' that
individual on a personal level. I'm all for debating, but let's keep it
at a professional level.
Patricia Houston
------------------------------
#208
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:01:01 -0500
From: "Michaela Conley, HPRI"
Subject: Questions...
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------EF8221A84642C4CD150E8142
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello HEDIR's
Any suggestions where I might find:.
1. How many schools in the US offer health promotion
curricula?
2. How many students graduated from hp related programs in
say 1988?
3. How many students will graduate this year?
4. Stats on growth in our field...
Thanks for any assistance you may offer
:-)
------------------------------
#209
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:09:26 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Re: the Dairy
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Dear Ansa,
Thanks for your note. Looks like I can use all the support I can get.
(grin)
Walt
On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:12:16 +0200 Ansa Ojanlatva writes:
>**
>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>**
>
>I have been reading only parts of this discussion and do not want to
>send a
>long message. A couple of points.
>
>First, there is beginning to be increasing evidence of allergic
>problems
>with milk in adults, not only lactose intolerance.
>
>Second, there's been public discussion about the problem with milk led
>by
>nutritionists in excercise fields where they work with winning
>athletes.
>There is a call for new and more accurate nutritional guidelines for
>various groups. Calcium needs were being illustrated as an example,
>and
>milk is being proposed as one problem area. Ansa Ojanlatva.
>
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
#210
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:51:15 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Re: Dairy and Walt Stoll
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Dear Jack,
I couldn't agree with you more. However, just as one should not be
prejudiced about blacks, whites, yellows, etc., so should people not be
prejudiced about MDs. The vast majority of MDs know nothing about
nutrition, and worse, couldn't care less. However, as a Founding Member
of the American Holistic Medical Association, and having served on their
Board of Trustees for many years, I KNOW that there are MD/DOs who know a
LOT about nutrition. Of course, we all had to learn about it in
non-sanctioned post-graduate courses & personal literature research--as
well as practicing clinical nutrition in the "trenches" of our offices.
Whatever we might have learned in medical school (very d--n little) has
almost invariably been proven wrong.
Perhaps it is time for you to stop throwing out the baby with the
bathwater?
I am glad to hear that there are people like you out there. I hope you
will begin to get an inkling that SOME of us are MD/DOs. If you are
interested in getting in touch with a few of them, I would be GLAD to
give you the phones & addresses of a few national organizations that
could give you a listing.
Please do all communicating, publically, on the HEDIR. Others deserve to
find MD/DOs in their area who are NOT nutritionally ignorant.
Thanks for your note. Walt
On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:23:53 -0500 "Jack D. Osman"
writes:
>**
>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>**
>
>I, too, felt uneasy with such brash display of certainty --
>particularly
>when one of the quotes I use for evaluating the reliability of
>nutrition
>information states: "Most doctors have been taught nutrition by
>doctors
>who were taught nutrition by doctors who made it up!" Or, how about
>Dr.
>Jean Mayer's quote: "The average secretary knows just as much about
>nutrition as the average doctor -- unless the secretary read a book."
>When only 3% of medical doctors have had acourse in human nutrition
>--
>no wonder we has sooo much misinformation being aired by MD's. Look at
>all the junk books in weight control done by MDs. One was even banned
>from practicing medicine in the pacific northwest because of his
>nutrition antics!
>
>--
>Jack D. Osman, Ph.D., CHES
>Professor of Health Science
>Towson University
>Towson, MD 21252
>(410) 830-4222
>e-mail: josman@towson.edu
>home page: towson.edu/~osman
>
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
#211
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:07:45 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Re: Alternative medicine
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Dear Kathleen,
I am SO glad to hear that health educators are ready to look at this
critical area of education. You would be interested in the lead article
(by Don Read and myself) in the new International Electronic Journal of
Health Education--published 1/1/98. Its basic premise is exactly what
you are proposing (LOTS of bibliography).
The address of the journal has been listed many times on the HEDIR.
However, in case you missed it, it is: http://131.230.221.136/IEJHE
When you are asked for an ID#, you can use mine stoll and when you
are asked for a password, you can use mine walt Since this is a
free journal, you can get your own ID and password. I am just trying to
save you time.
By the way, the first University in the USA to offer a PhD in Holistic
Health is Antioch University in Yellow Springs, Ohio. They have branches
all over the country. I would appreciate your sharing their address &
phone numbers with the HEDIR when you get them.
You cannot know how much I appreciate your interest in this area. You
will be happy you are moving in this direction. If health educators do
not take the lead, some other educationally oriented health profession
will. The American Holistic Nursing Association has a 20 year head start
on "health educators" already. They have a wonderful website. Use one
of the search engines & look for the AHNA.
Please do any response publically on the HEDIR. Others deserve to be in
on the ground floor of this movement.
Namaste` Walt
On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:17:41 -0600 Kathleen Welshimer
writes:
>**
>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>**
>
>Several individuals with an interest in alternative medicine have
>recently
>approached me about obtaining MS or PhD degrees in health education,
>with a
>concentration in alternative medicine. Their interests are varied:
>hypnotherapy, herbal remedies, homeopathy, aura balancing.... We
>don't have
>much to offer them at SIU, other than as a consumer issue in our
>consumer
>health class. Given that even NIH is now looking at alternative
>medicine,
>perhaps it is time for us in health ed. to become more active in the
>field.
>
>I would be interested in hearing from those of you whose programs
>offer
>courses dealing with alternative medicine (at either the grad or
>undergrad
>level), including key topics. Do any of you have a special
>concentration in
>this area? Is anyone aware of academic programs outside health ed.
>that
>provide preparation in this alternative medicine? I'd be glad to
>share my
>findings with fellow HEDIRs if there's an interest....
>
>Thanks for your assistance.
>
>Kathleen Welshimer, Ph.D., MSPH
>Department of Health Education and Recreation
>Southern Illinois University
>Carbondale, IL 62901
>
>Phone: 618-453-2777
>E-mail: welshime@siu.edu
>
_____________________________________________________________________
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Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
#212
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:23:18 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Re: Are we done yet?
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Hi, Pat.
Thanks for the nice note. I appreciate your comments. As soon as things
get personal, information transfer ceases. I would guess that ALL HEDIR
participants are much too busy to indulge in reading the HEDIR for fun.
Most of us are mostly interested in information.
I have already put a response on the HEDIR about at least MY not taking
anything on the HEDIR personally. I simply do not have the time or
inclination for it. I cannot speak for others.
I also have explained that my amature status had lead me to not know when
I was getting a private message and what was on the HEDIR. Everything I
get is on JUNO which is my peresonal email address. Basically, I guess I
could not imagine that anyone would not want anything they had to say
viewed publically. Since MY over-riding goal is the dissemination of as
much information, to as many people, as possible, I am not the least bit
interested in doing ANYTHING privately. If it is worth saying, it is
worth saying publically.
I will not read, or respond to any HEDIR messages that are sent
privately.
I hope HEDIR participants will understand why.
Namaste` Pat. Namaste` Walt
On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:51:51 -0500 Patricia Houston
writes:
>**
>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>**
>
>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not
>understand
>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
>------ =_NextPart_001_01BD3078.97718550
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>O.K.
>
>I know I'm not the only one that feels this way...are we all done
>bashing Walt on the HEDIR? I grant you that I don't believe it is
>appropriate to respond to a personal message on the listserv, but I
>also
>disapprove of the sarcasm that has accompanied some of the responses
>sent to Walt.
>
>I love that we now have the technology that allows us to communicate
>from all parts of the world in such a short time frame, but with that
>also comes the inability to sit face to face with another human being
>and have a diplomatic conversation. Not being able to look into
>someone's eyes during a discussion makes it much easier to 'bash' that
>individual on a personal level. I'm all for debating, but let's keep
>it
>at a professional level.
>
>Patricia Houston
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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------------------------------
#213
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:14:57 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Re: National Dairy Council and Walt Stoll
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Dear Michele,
Thanks for the reference. This is a new one on me. Has there been any
substantiating research? As you well know, one study does not mean much
no matter how well it is done.
Namaste` Walt
On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:33:45 -0800 (PST) "Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD,
CHES" writes:
>
>Walt,
>
>As I mentioned to Margo, the randomized groups were split into (1)9-10
>fruits/veges, (2) the same with the addition of lowfat dairy ((3)as
>well as a control "traditional" diet). BP reduced best when the dairy
>was added. You can read all about the DASH study at a wonderful site:
>http://dash.bwh.harvard.edu.
>
>Michele
>
>===
>Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES
>Health Education Coordinator
>Kaiser Permanente, Mid-Atlantic States
>Company Email: michele.goldschmidt@kp.org
>Private Email: michele_goldschmidt@rocketmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---walt stoll wrote:
>>
>> Dear Michele,
>>
>> Thanks for your note. There IS truth in it.
>>
>> This response is not to denigrate anything you had to say.
>>
>> I have faith that any intelligent person has the right (and the
>ability)
>> to make up their own minds once they have enough data. Toward that
>end,
>> I can at least give those interested a starting place.
>>
>> Although Don Read's & my article in the premier issue of the
>> "International Electronic Journal of Health Education (IEJHE) is
>barely
>> even tangentially about milk problems, there is a wealth of
>resources in
>> the bibliography for the paper that lead to more than anyone would
>want
>> to know on the subject.
>>
>> Michele mentioned the journal in her original note.
>>
>> The address of this free journal is http://131.230.221.136/IEJHE
>
>> When they ask you for an ID use either read or stoll When they ask
>you
>> for a password use either 7331 (with read) or walt (with stoll).
>That
>> way you don't have to get your own & it saves you time. Our article
>is
>> the first one in the journal & is entitled "Healthy Behavior: The
>> Implications of a Holistic Paradigm of Thinking Through Mindbody
>> Research". We appreciate any feedback.
>>
>> I just had to mention, for those who are looking for "research
>articles"
>> that most people who eat 9-10 fruits & vegetables a day and reduce
>meat
>> consumption will see benefits in reducing their blood pressure. I
>doubt
>> very much that a case can be made that the inclusion of the milk had
>any
>> beneficial effect.
>>
>> Walt
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:53:34 -0800 "Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD,
>CHES"
>> writes:
>> >**
>> >** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>> >** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>> >**
>> >
>> >Margo,
>> >
>> >It's good that you let Walt know that you feel that he publically
>> >embarrassed you, but I am not sure that you need to defend your
>> >actions, teaching methods or personal habits. Walt is very dogmatic
>> >about his position and his evidence, and he may know quite a bit
>from
>> >his perspective, but I still say there's not much sound
>epidemiologic
>> >evidence to support it, yet.
>> >
>> >There is evidence that milk is helpful, however. For example, the
>> >DASH study (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) was a
>randomized
>> >clinical trial, the results of which are now adopted by the Joint
>> >National Committee issuing guidelines for hypertension management.
>In
>> >that study, the researchers found that eating 9-10 fruits and
>> >vegetables a day and two servings of lowfat or nonfat dairy
>products
>> >(while lowering meat consumption)successfully lowered BP as well as
>> >antihypertensive medications, and better than eating 9-10 fruits
>and
>> >veges alone. Nonfat milk also has a high BV (biological value)and
>its
>> >whey enhances the immune system.
>> >
>> >Yes, it can cause allergies and many adults are lactose intolerant.
>> >There are ways of dealing with both. There are other examples as
>> >well.
>> >
>> >Blanket statements about milk do not tell the whole story - either
>> >positive or negative, and as a health educator, I refuse to see
>only
>> >one side. Our clients deserve the right to make the choices for
>> >themselves.
>> >
>> >Take care.
>> >
>> >
>> >===
>> >Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES
>> >Health Education Coordinator
>> >Kaiser Permanente, Mid-Atlantic States
>> >Company Email: michele.goldschmidt@kp.org
>> >Private Email: michele_goldschmidt@rocketmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________
>> >DO YOU YAHOO!?
>> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>> >
>>
>>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>>
>>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
#214
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:29:50 +0000
From: walt stoll
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Kudos for the Dairy Council
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Dear Donate,
Before you accuse someone of not having done their homework, perhaps you
might do your own. I have studied this from the world literature and
attended MANY postgraduate courses, which covered this very subject, for
at least 20 years.
For you to say what you have said (apparently off the top of your head)
you cannot have made any significant effort in this direction at all.
You must still be depending on the "powers that be" to do your thinking
for you.
In addition to the above, once I learned that it might be important for
my patients, I saw dramatic improvement in most of those patients I
determined it might be worth while doing a trial of elimination--and who
were willing to give it a valid try. Sometimes I was wrong since we are
ALL learning as fast as we can how to choose those who will benefit
BEFPORE doing a therapeutic trial of elimination, without missing too
many who would benefit. How much experience have you had?
I would suggest you make a copy of your note, put it in a drawer, and
take it out in 10-20 years. It seems to take about that long for
nay-sayers to catch up with the facts.
I hope you are not a "health educator".
Walt
On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:36:53 -0800 donatelr@ccmail.orst.edu (Rebecca
Donatelle) writes:
> Dear Dr. Stoll...Before you make blanket statements about milk
>being
> the WORST source of calcium on the planet; making largely
> unsubstantiated comments about the role of diary products in
> immunodeficiency, etc., I suggest that you read widely and
>broadly
> about these topics...with the emphasis on RESEARCH that
>substantiates
> these claims.
>
> Oprah's indictments against the cattle industry were perhaps less
>
> INFLAMMATORY than your comments, and it certainly got her into a
>whole
> lot of trouble....
>
>
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
>_________________________________
>Subject: Re: Kudos for the Dairy Council
>Author: walt stoll at Internet_Gateway
>Date: 1/31/98 7:43 AM
>
>
>**
>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>**
>
>Dear Margo,
>
>I was born & raised on a dairy farm. My brother still milks 1000 cows
>
>every 8 hours--a typical milk factory in Ohio. My entire professional
>
>life has been dedicated to patient education and the last 17+ of those
>
>years I knew SOMETHING about nutrition.
>
>I can tell you from personal & professional training & experience that
>
>the National Dairy Council is one of the worst sources of nutritional
>information you could find. It is a lobbying arm of the propaganda
>mill
>that is the dairy association. Since they finance much of the
>dietetic
>training in the country, you can be sure what most dietitians "know"
>about milk & dairy products. The same is true of the meat industry
>and
>the agricultural department. Look for a Nutritionist.
>
>For starters: cows' milk is one of the poorest sources of calcium on
>the
>planet, is responsible for a very large % of the antibiotic resistant
>bacteria we are hearing so much about right now, a major cause of type
>1
>diabetes, the cause of more than 95% of recurrent ear infections in
>children, a major cause of behavior problems in children, perhaps the
>most important single cause of the increase in atherosclerotic
>arterial
>disease (the cause of nearly all coronaries & strokes) this century in
>
>the USA, a major cause of panic attacks & depression in adults,
>chronic
>intestinal inflammation--I could go on for longer than you are likely
>willing to listen.
>
>However, I do have to mention one more problem with cows' milk as it
>is
>produced in this country: It is loaded with hormones--all of which
>have
>been shown to contribute to many chronic disease conditions in our
>aging
>population: cancer, arthritis, atherosclerosis, hypertension,
>dysautonomia, immunological problems, etc.
>
>Since you are obviously interested in nutrition & helping others, I
>would
>suggest you start at least supplementing your knowledge from places
>other
>than the National Dairy Council who will do their best to direct you
>away
>from these facts. In this regard they are EXACTLY like the tobacco
>companies over the past 50+ years. You can start with your local
>library. Much of this information has been available for more than 50
>
>years. I have seen the dramatic results of eliminating commercial
>dairy
>products in my patients.
>
>The national Dairy Council has one of the most powerful lobbies in
>congress. It has even been exempted from putting on the lable what
>they
>have added to dairy products--the only organization exempted. They
>successfully lobbied to keep off the lable whether the product came
>from
>growth hormone produced milk. Within 20 years growth hormone will be
>illegal for producing milk. In the meantime, 260,000,000 people will
>be
>exposed to what is known around the world to increase breast & colon
>cancer at the very least--without their knowledge or consent AND with
>no
>controls.
>
>Knowing what I know, I could not resist sending this to you. I hope,
>when you have a lot more facts, you will share what you have learned
>with
>the the HEDIR participants.
>
>Walt Stoll, MD
>
>On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:48:19 -0800 Margo Harris
>writes:
>>**
>>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
>>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
>>**
>>
>>I'm not usually in to testimonials. But Mary Arnold's teaching aid
>>from
>>the Dairy Council, and my suggestion to Brian a few days ago that he
>>review the Dairy Council preschool program, Chef Combo, made me
>write.
>>I've relied on Dairy Council materials for more than 20 years. The
>>state councils and the National Dairy Council are a strong source of
>>quality materials and high quality educators. In fact, when some
>>argue
>>about needing a CHES to be a health educator, the professionals I've
>>known at different dairy councils come to mind. A dairy council
>>professional comes to my college class to cover nutrition essentials,
>
>>better than I ever could. No CHES, but they are the nutrition
>>education
>>experts.
>>
>>The Dairy Council, both state and national, pay attention to health
>>education trends, policy, etc. Nationally they have worked to
>>understand, link existing materials, and develop new materials that
>>match the Healthy People objectives. In our state in public schools,
>
>>we
>>teach to what we call the EALRS = essential academic learning
>>requirements. In print materials and on their Web site, the
>>Washington
>>Dairy Council has shown how to teach nutrition and link lessons and
>>information to the EALRs.
>>
>>For educators with low or no budgets, the Council is also an option.
>>In
>>our state, all teachers receive $15 worth of free materials each
>>calendar year. We're offered a high quality Web site with an
>>interactive nutrition game. You need ShockWave for the full effect,
>>but
>>try it out at http://www.eatsmart.org If you win the game in under
>>five
>>minutes, you get a free copy of the Dairy Council game, AIM. The
>>Dairy
>>Council has a new publication available that would be of interest to
>>educators who are working in osteoporosis. It's called,"Milk...For
>>the
>>Health of It: Questions & Answers about Milk, Milk Products and Their
>
>>Role in Your Health." If you haven't tapped this resource, contact
>>your
>>state Dairy Council and get their materials catalog. I've used
>>Council
>>Web sites in Florida, Washington and the National site in my classes,
>
>>and the students have always rated the sites and the print materials
>>highly. Nope, I don't get any discount or any kickbacks! Happy
>>Weekend. Margo
>>
>>Margo Harris
>>Harris Training & Consulting Services
>>Seattle, WA
>>Email: htcs@halcyon.com
>>Web: http://www.htcs.com/
>>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
_____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
#215
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:07:57 -0800
From: "Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES"
Subject: Fwd: Re: National Dairy Council and Walt Stoll
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Copy of Reply to Walt for HEDIR.
===
Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES
Health Education Coordinator
Kaiser Permanente, Mid-Atlantic States
Company Email: michele.goldschmidt@kp.org
Private Email: michele_goldschmidt@rocketmail.com
---"Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES"
wrote:
>
> Walt, substantiating studies are in the works. From what I can see,
> this study opened up many more possibilities of using whole foods the
> way they were meant to be used - to improve and maintain our health.
> I,too, am watching ofr the results.
>
> Michele
>
>
>
> ===
> Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES
> Health Education Coordinator
> Kaiser Permanente, Mid-Atlantic States
> Company Email: michele.goldschmidt@kp.org
> Private Email: michele_goldschmidt@rocketmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---walt stoll wrote:
> >
> > **
> > ** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
> > ** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
> > **
> >
> > Dear Michele,
> >
> > Thanks for the reference. This is a new one on me. Has there been
> any
> > substantiating research? As you well know, one study does not mean
> much
> > no matter how well it is done.
> >
> > Namaste` Walt
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:33:45 -0800 (PST) "Michele H. Goldschmidt,
EdD,
> > CHES" writes:
> > >
> > >Walt,
> > >
> > >As I mentioned to Margo, the randomized groups were split into
> (1)9-10
> > >fruits/veges, (2) the same with the addition of lowfat dairy ((3)as
> > >well as a control "traditional" diet). BP reduced best when the
> dairy
> > >was added. You can read all about the DASH study at a wonderful
> site:
> > >http://dash.bwh.harvard.edu.
> > >
> > >Michele
> > >
> > >===
> > >Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES
> > >Health Education Coordinator
> > >Kaiser Permanente, Mid-Atlantic States
> > >Company Email: michele.goldschmidt@kp.org
> > >Private Email: michele_goldschmidt@rocketmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >---walt stoll wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Dear Michele,
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for your note. There IS truth in it.
> > >>
> > >> This response is not to denigrate anything you had to say.
> > >>
> > >> I have faith that any intelligent person has the right (and the
> > >ability)
> > >> to make up their own minds once they have enough data. Toward
that
> > >end,
> > >> I can at least give those interested a starting place.
> > >>
> > >> Although Don Read's & my article in the premier issue of the
> > >> "International Electronic Journal of Health Education (IEJHE) is
> > >barely
> > >> even tangentially about milk problems, there is a wealth of
> > >resources in
> > >> the bibliography for the paper that lead to more than anyone
would
> > >want
> > >> to know on the subject.
> > >>
> > >> Michele mentioned the journal in her original note.
> > >>
> > >> The address of this free journal is
http://131.230.221.136/IEJHE
> > >
> > >> When they ask you for an ID use either read or stoll When they
> ask
> > >you
> > >> for a password use either 7331 (with read) or walt (with stoll).
> > >That
> > >> way you don't have to get your own & it saves you time. Our
> article
> > >is
> > >> the first one in the journal & is entitled "Healthy Behavior: The
> > >> Implications of a Holistic Paradigm of Thinking Through Mindbody
> > >> Research". We appreciate any feedback.
> > >>
> > >> I just had to mention, for those who are looking for "research
> > >articles"
> > >> that most people who eat 9-10 fruits & vegetables a day and
reduce
> > >meat
> > >> consumption will see benefits in reducing their blood pressure.
I
> > >doubt
> > >> very much that a case can be made that the inclusion of the milk
> had
> > >any
> > >> beneficial effect.
> > >>
> > >> Walt
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:53:34 -0800 "Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD,
> > >CHES"
> > >> writes:
> > >> >**
> > >> >** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
> > >> >** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
> > >> >**
> > >> >
> > >> >Margo,
> > >> >
> > >> >It's good that you let Walt know that you feel that he
publically
> > >> >embarrassed you, but I am not sure that you need to defend your
> > >> >actions, teaching methods or personal habits. Walt is very
> dogmatic
> > >> >about his position and his evidence, and he may know quite a bit
> > >from
> > >> >his perspective, but I still say there's not much sound
> > >epidemiologic
> > >> >evidence to support it, yet.
> > >> >
> > >> >There is evidence that milk is helpful, however. For example,
the
> > >> >DASH study (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) was a
> > >randomized
> > >> >clinical trial, the results of which are now adopted by the
Joint
> > >> >National Committee issuing guidelines for hypertension
management.
> > >In
> > >> >that study, the researchers found that eating 9-10 fruits and
> > >> >vegetables a day and two servings of lowfat or nonfat dairy
> > >products
> > >> >(while lowering meat consumption)successfully lowered BP as well
> as
> > >> >antihypertensive medications, and better than eating 9-10 fruits
> > >and
> > >> >veges alone. Nonfat milk also has a high BV (biological
value)and
> > >its
> > >> >whey enhances the immune system.
> > >> >
> > >> >Yes, it can cause allergies and many adults are lactose
> intolerant.
> > >> >There are ways of dealing with both. There are other examples
as
> > >> >well.
> > >> >
> > >> >Blanket statements about milk do not tell the whole story -
either
> > >> >positive or negative, and as a health educator, I refuse to see
> > >only
> > >> >one side. Our clients deserve the right to make the choices for
> > >> >themselves.
> > >> >
> > >> >Take care.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >===
> > >> >Michele H. Goldschmidt, EdD, CHES
> > >> >Health Education Coordinator
> > >> >Kaiser Permanente, Mid-Atlantic States
> > >> >Company Email: michele.goldschmidt@kp.org
> > >> >Private Email: michele_goldschmidt@rocketmail.com
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >_________________________________________________________
> > >> >DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > >> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>_____________________________________________________________________
> > >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet
e-mail.
> > >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> > >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________
> > >DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
_____________________________________________________________________
> > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
#216
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:11:01 +0000
From: Steve Gabany
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Kudos for the Dairy Council
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
i'll tell you what, neighbors. i don't have a position on this
debate. maybe whether one likes milk is not too different from one's
sexual orientation -- no one else's business. but, it seems to me
that this last from walt (whoever you ARE, walt) crosses over the
bounds of civility and professional debate into personal attack.
i for one have no interest in receiving such messages, and, if you,
walt, or anyone else intends to continue to send them, i'm of the
mind to request that you cease and desist or get forcibly removed
from the list!
> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:29:50 +0000
> Reply-to: walt stoll
> From: walt stoll
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Kudos for the Dairy Council
> To: HEDIR-L@SIU.EDU
> **
> ** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
> ** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
> **
>
> Dear Donate,
>
> Before you accuse someone of not having done their homework, perhaps you
> might do your own. I have studied this from the world literature and
> attended MANY postgraduate courses, which covered this very subject, for
> at least 20 years.
>
> For you to say what you have said (apparently off the top of your head)
> you cannot have made any significant effort in this direction at all.
> You must still be depending on the "powers that be" to do your thinking
> for you.
>
> In addition to the above, once I learned that it might be important for
> my patients, I saw dramatic improvement in most of those patients I
> determined it might be worth while doing a trial of elimination--and who
> were willing to give it a valid try. Sometimes I was wrong since we are
> ALL learning as fast as we can how to choose those who will benefit
> BEFPORE doing a therapeutic trial of elimination, without missing too
> many who would benefit. How much experience have you had?
>
> I would suggest you make a copy of your note, put it in a drawer, and
> take it out in 10-20 years. It seems to take about that long for
> nay-sayers to catch up with the facts.
>
> I hope you are not a "health educator".
>
> Walt
>
>
> On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:36:53 -0800 donatelr@ccmail.orst.edu (Rebecca
> Donatelle) writes:
> > Dear Dr. Stoll...Before you make blanket statements about milk
> >being
> > the WORST source of calcium on the planet; making largely
> > unsubstantiated comments about the role of diary products in
> > immunodeficiency, etc., I suggest that you read widely and
> >broadly
> > about these topics...with the emphasis on RESEARCH that
> >substantiates
> > these claims.
> >
> > Oprah's indictments against the cattle industry were perhaps less
> >
> > INFLAMMATORY than your comments, and it certainly got her into a
> >whole
> > lot of trouble....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >______________________________ Reply Separator
> >_________________________________
> >Subject: Re: Kudos for the Dairy Council
> >Author: walt stoll at Internet_Gateway
> >Date: 1/31/98 7:43 AM
> >
> >
> >**
> >** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
> >** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
> >**
> >
> >Dear Margo,
> >
> >I was born & raised on a dairy farm. My brother still milks 1000 cows
> >
> >every 8 hours--a typical milk factory in Ohio. My entire professional
> >
> >life has been dedicated to patient education and the last 17+ of those
> >
> >years I knew SOMETHING about nutrition.
> >
> >I can tell you from personal & professional training & experience that
> >
> >the National Dairy Council is one of the worst sources of nutritional
> >information you could find. It is a lobbying arm of the propaganda
> >mill
> >that is the dairy association. Since they finance much of the
> >dietetic
> >training in the country, you can be sure what most dietitians "know"
> >about milk & dairy products. The same is true of the meat industry
> >and
> >the agricultural department. Look for a Nutritionist.
> >
> >For starters: cows' milk is one of the poorest sources of calcium on
> >the
> >planet, is responsible for a very large % of the antibiotic resistant
> >bacteria we are hearing so much about right now, a major cause of type
> >1
> >diabetes, the cause of more than 95% of recurrent ear infections in
> >children, a major cause of behavior problems in children, perhaps the
> >most important single cause of the increase in atherosclerotic
> >arterial
> >disease (the cause of nearly all coronaries & strokes) this century in
> >
> >the USA, a major cause of panic attacks & depression in adults,
> >chronic
> >intestinal inflammation--I could go on for longer than you are likely
> >willing to listen.
> >
> >However, I do have to mention one more problem with cows' milk as it
> >is
> >produced in this country: It is loaded with hormones--all of which
> >have
> >been shown to contribute to many chronic disease conditions in our
> >aging
> >population: cancer, arthritis, atherosclerosis, hypertension,
> >dysautonomia, immunological problems, etc.
> >
> >Since you are obviously interested in nutrition & helping others, I
> >would
> >suggest you start at least supplementing your knowledge from places
> >other
> >than the National Dairy Council who will do their best to direct you
> >away
> >from these facts. In this regard they are EXACTLY like the tobacco
> >companies over the past 50+ years. You can start with your local
> >library. Much of this information has been available for more than 50
> >
> >years. I have seen the dramatic results of eliminating commercial
> >dairy
> >products in my patients.
> >
> >The national Dairy Council has one of the most powerful lobbies in
> >congress. It has even been exempted from putting on the lable what
> >they
> >have added to dairy products--the only organization exempted. They
> >successfully lobbied to keep off the lable whether the product came
> >from
> >growth hormone produced milk. Within 20 years growth hormone will be
> >illegal for producing milk. In the meantime, 260,000,000 people will
> >be
> >exposed to what is known around the world to increase breast & colon
> >cancer at the very least--without their knowledge or consent AND with
> >no
> >controls.
> >
> >Knowing what I know, I could not resist sending this to you. I hope,
> >when you have a lot more facts, you will share what you have learned
> >with
> >the the HEDIR participants.
> >
> >Walt Stoll, MD
> >
> >On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:48:19 -0800 Margo Harris
> >writes:
> >>**
> >>** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
> >>** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
> >>**
> >>
> >>I'm not usually in to testimonials. But Mary Arnold's teaching aid
> >>from
> >>the Dairy Council, and my suggestion to Brian a few days ago that he
> >>review the Dairy Council preschool program, Chef Combo, made me
> >write.
> >>I've relied on Dairy Council materials for more than 20 years. The
> >>state councils and the National Dairy Council are a strong source of
> >>quality materials and high quality educators. In fact, when some
> >>argue
> >>about needing a CHES to be a health educator, the professionals I've
> >>known at different dairy councils come to mind. A dairy council
> >>professional comes to my college class to cover nutrition essentials,
> >
> >>better than I ever could. No CHES, but they are the nutrition
> >>education
> >>experts.
> >>
> >>The Dairy Council, both state and national, pay attention to health
> >>education trends, policy, etc. Nationally they have worked to
> >>understand, link existing materials, and develop new materials that
> >>match the Healthy People objectives. In our state in public schools,
> >
> >>we
> >>teach to what we call the EALRS = essential academic learning
> >>requirements. In print materials and on their Web site, the
> >>Washington
> >>Dairy Council has shown how to teach nutrition and link lessons and
> >>information to the EALRs.
> >>
> >>For educators with low or no budgets, the Council is also an option.
> >>In
> >>our state, all teachers receive $15 worth of free materials each
> >>calendar year. We're offered a high quality Web site with an
> >>interactive nutrition game. You need ShockWave for the full effect,
> >>but
> >>try it out at http://www.eatsmart.org If you win the game in under
> >>five
> >>minutes, you get a free copy of the Dairy Council game, AIM. The
> >>Dairy
> >>Council has a new publication available that would be of interest to
> >>educators who are working in osteoporosis. It's called,"Milk...For
> >>the
> >>Health of It: Questions & Answers about Milk, Milk Products and Their
> >
> >>Role in Your Health." If you haven't tapped this resource, contact
> >>your
> >>state Dairy Council and get their materials catalog. I've used
> >>Council
> >>Web sites in Florida, Washington and the National site in my classes,
> >
> >>and the students have always rated the sites and the print materials
> >>highly. Nope, I don't get any discount or any kickbacks! Happy
> >>Weekend. Margo
> >>
> >>Margo Harris
> >>Harris Training & Consulting Services
> >>Seattle, WA
> >>Email: htcs@halcyon.com
> >>Web: http://www.htcs.com/
> >>
> >
> >_____________________________________________________________________
> >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> >
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
Steve Gabany
Gabany@indstate.edu
------------------------------
#217
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:16:37 -0500
From: Lyn Lawrance
Subject: Books
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Can anyone help me with the complete authors and or
publishers of the following two books, and how they might
be obtained, please?
Community Health Education Methods: A Practitioner's Guide
By ??
Balance Group Publishers ?
Practicing the Application of Health education Skills and
Competencies
by Keyser, Morrow, Doyle, Ogletree & Parsons
??
I f anyone could offer suggestions for a text book or
reference on intervention strategies for undergraduates, I
would be most appreciative.
Thanks
----------------------
Lynette Lawrance, PhD.
Associate Dean & Associate Professor
School of Health and Human Performance
Department of Public Health Education
P.O. Box 26169
Greensboro, NC 27402-6169
lawrance@uncg.edu
--- End Forwarded Message ---
----------------------
Lynette Lawrance, PhD.
Associate Dean & Associate Professor
School of Health and Human Performance
Department of Public Health Education
P.O. Box 26169
Greensboro, NC 27402-6169
lawrance@uncg.edu
------------------------------
#218
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:18:40 +0000
From: ritsonl@WOU.EDU
Subject: Professional Net-Etiquette
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
I would appreciate HEDIR returning to professional issues and refrain
from personal e-mail messages to specific individuals -- and not to
the general population of this ListServe. I do not believe the cited
intent of HEDIR was to serve its ListServe subscribers in this
manner. Since I have limited access during the work day to
receive/respond to e-mail pertinent health issues, I am dismayed at
the amount of time I must devote to deleting "irrelevant personal
chatter". PLEASE let's return to professional net-etiquette.
Thank you!
LaNaya Ritson
Western Oregon University
ritsonl@wou.edu
------------------------------
#219
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:30:38 -0500
From: "Jones, Robin Courtney"
Subject: health education
**
** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
**
Hedir members: This is really so disturbing. We've argued about CHES
certification, we've complained that we don't get any respect in our
profession, and we've jointly celebrated health education success
stories. These self-congratulatory postings, and barbs at respondents
are destructive. How can we as a group of disjointed professionals, all
struggling for respect in our field, ever attain that respect if we
don't have it for ourselves? And, I don't want to pick on one person,
but Walt, I took your advice and looked at your article, and among the
three pages of references for books and videotapes were included only 2
references for information that had been peer-reviewed. Peer review is
a basic tenet of science, and though we can not all agree on every
issue, can we at least agree that without science our field will not
and, in my opinion should not, ever gain respect. Walt, you are
correct: medical science can not solve all problems--there does need to
be a more holistic view than lab-based experiments. However, I think it
is absolutely crucial that we, as a group of behavioral scientists,
acknowledge and respect the difference between qualitative research,
standardized, measurable, peer-reviewed, repeated, and triangulated, and
anecdotal evidence. There is nothing wrong with using anecdotal
evidence as a jumping off point for qualitative or quantitative or
lab-based science. It too plays a fundamental role in the process of
carrying out a scientific method: Inductive and deductive reasoning,
and observations all contribute to our knowledge of a subject. However,
for every anecdote that Walt has pointed out concerning milk, I have
been able to think of several confounders for the relationship between
milk abstinence and health effects. This is not to say that the
relationship is not valid, or holds no possibility, but as a health
educator, as a scientist, and as a person living a daily life, I have to
say that without clinical trials that have been repeated, as Walt
pointed out to Michele, the scientific evidence is still weak. And for
health educators or doctors to be making these unbased claims only
weakens our position and chance for respect in the grand scheme of
health and health promotion. Respect isn't given; it is earned. Let's
respect each other and the science behind our work.
Courtney Jones, MPH
> -----Original Message-----
> From: walt stoll [SMTP:waltstoll@JUNO.COM]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 12:30 AM
> To: HEDIR-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Kudos for the Dairy Council
>
> **
> ** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
> ** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
> **
>
> Dear Donate,
>
> Before you accuse someone of not having done their homework, perhaps
> you
> might do your own. I have studied this from the world literature and
> attended MANY postgraduate courses, which covered this very subject,
> for
> at least 20 years.
>
> For you to say what you have said (apparently off the top of your
> head)
> you cannot have made any significant effort in this direction at all.
> You must still be depending on the "powers that be" to do your
> thinking
> for you.
>
> In addition to the above, once I learned that it might be important
> for
> my patients, I saw dramatic improvement in most of those patients I
> determined it might be worth while doing a trial of elimination--and
> who
> were willing to give it a valid try. Sometimes I was wrong since we
> are
> ALL learning as fast as we can how to choose those who will benefit
> BEFPORE doing a therapeutic trial of elimination, without missing too
> many who would benefit. How much experience have you had?
>
> I would suggest you make a copy of your note, put it in a drawer, and
> take it out in 10-20 years. It seems to take about that long for
> nay-sayers to catch up with the facts.
>
> I hope you are not a "health educator".
>
> Walt
>
>
> On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:36:53 -0800 donatelr@ccmail.orst.edu (Rebecca
> Donatelle) writes:
> > Dear Dr. Stoll...Before you make blanket statements about milk
> >being
> > the WORST source of calcium on the planet; making largely
> > unsubstantiated comments about the role of diary products in
> > immunodeficiency, etc., I suggest that you read widely and
> >broadly
> > about these topics...with the emphasis on RESEARCH that
> >substantiates
> > these claims.
> >
> > Oprah's indictments against the cattle industry were perhaps
> less
> >
> > INFLAMMATORY than your comments, and it certainly got her into a
> >whole
> > lot of trouble....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >______________________________ Reply Separator
> >_________________________________
> >Subject: Re: Kudos for the Dairy Council
> >Author: walt stoll at Internet_Gateway
> >Date: 1/31/98 7:43 AM
> >
> >
> >**
> >** Check out the NEW Health Education e-journal at:
> >** http://131.230.221.136/iejhe
> >**
> >
> >Dear Margo,
> >
> >I was born & raised on a dairy farm. My brother still milks 1000
> cows
> >
> >every 8 hours--a typical milk factory in Ohio. My entire
> professional
> >
> >