#1406 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 06:15:38 -0600 From: "Walter A. Hanks" Subject: Re: Melinda's concern about the expense of CE ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net A few people have responded to my post asking me how I keep current, given the costs. So, I thought I would share my reply with everyone. I am a graduate student working on my Master's degree, and yes I understand the financial pinch. I don't exactly get paid "well" either. But, I feel strongly about keeping current and being a professional, so I do what I have to do. Being a student, though, does reduce the costs. Also, the costs are tax deductible. I do have two gripes with NCHEC. First, I think that graduate studies should count for CEUs. If the purpose is to remain current, graduate studies certainly fill that need. Second, I don't like the heavy-handed way NCHEC collects dues. Most professional certifications come from professional associations and the dues to the association cover the certification plus journals, etc.. Not so with NCHEC. For our $25 annual renewal fee, all we get is the privilege to spend even more money for the CEUs. If I happen to be a little short and can't get it in on time, the cost doubles. That bothers me. But, I do it anyway. Here's how. Every professional association in Health Ed. offers a reduced rate membership for students, which I take advantage of. I am a member of Eta Sigma Gamma, AAHE, ASHA, SOPHE, and APHA. The total cost to maintain those memberships as a student is about what one professional membership costs to non-students. Once I am done with school, I will cut at least two of those memberships out. I also have chosen not to maintain ancillary credentials. Since I am planning an academic career, my certifications from the National Safety Council, Red Cross, and Cancer Society are of less value than my CHES. So, I have let them go. I have neither the time nor the money to keep them all. Also, I am very selective about what CEUs I will use. For example, I have chosen *not* to use (and pay for) the CEUs that were available to me from the AAHE conference in Boston. I made that decision because of the very poor quality of the presentations and the lack of substantive learning that occurred. Finally, I guess I just have decided that this is something I am going to do and I make budget priorities accordingly. It isn't easy. I have two kids to feed and clothe and I would like some day to drive a decent car and own a home, as I'm sure we all would. But, this is a commitment I feel strongly about, so I just do it. Walt Hanks ------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.itsnet.com/~wdhanks/WaltHP.html Health is: "An integrated method of functioning that balances the physical, emotional, social, psychological, and spiritual dimensions of life while seeking to maximize individual potential in each, and not the absence of disease or infirmity." Walter A. Hanks, C.H.E.S. ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ #1407 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 06:14:57 -0700 From: Margo Harris Subject: Fw: Responses to: Re: Future of School Health ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net I'd like to add on to my earlier comments with a thought I omitted. Our middle and high schools are beginning to open school-based or school-linked clinics. Generally, these have been renamed "Wellness Centers." They are run by contractors, and if the contractor chooses, a health educator may be available in the clinic, often on a part-time basis. These health educators may be nurses or may be (currently) school health prepared health educators. Actually I think the model of the PE/health teacher is old, not new, Walter. That's an idea that has come and gone cyclically for some time. As professionals, I think we need to pay attention to teacher preparation programs and encourage strong inclusion of health education courses. I think the school nurse preparation programs also need additional health education courses. Emphasis needs to be placed on locating and reviewing health education instruction materials. My students are always surprised when we study the materials selection process in a school district. But teachers and school nurses sit on these committees. In more than one district I work with, the school nurse chairs this committee. Because so much of health education in schools is grant funded, I think additional emphasis needs to be placed on grant writing for the school health program. In fact, I'd like to sign up for the course! Students begin to realize pretty quickly that much of what's special or extra in education is grant funded, and they also recognize that grant writing is not in their teacher preparation program, but they which that topic was included. Margo Margo Harris Technology In Education Institute Seattle, WA Email: margo@techined.com Web: http://www.techined.com/ "If not for STRESS, I'd have no energy at all." ------------------------------ #1408 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:59:54 -0400 From: Bill Livingood Subject: Re: CHES ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Don: It would appear that you are an advocate of the Pre Flexner days when medicine was ful of quackery and medical education frequently involved "diploma mills" where people obtained medical degrees in 6 months. Bill Livingood -----Original Message----- From: Donald B Ardell To: HEDIR-L@SIU.EDU Sent: 6/28/99 1:20 PM Subject: CHES ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Dear Bill, I was an urban planner in the mid 60's with an MCP from a leading graduate school when the elders on the board of the American Institute of Planners decided to start a credentially process. Of course, they grandfathered themselves but required everyone esle to go through their process, paying fees along the way, leaping their newly imposed hoops, etc. I was a critic of the entire process during my years as editor of "The Little Magazine on Urbanism and Planning." I thought of all this when I got a question on my show the other day about CHES. Here's the Q and response fyi. Comments? Stay well. Don -------------------------- QUESTION Do wellness promoters consider themselves to be health education specialists and, if so, should they obtain a credential to this effect? What does CHES stand for? Do you encourage students and others in the wellness field to obtain whatever certification the field offers? RESPONSE Some wellness promoters consider themselves health educators of one kind of another, others do not. It depends. It depends upon the kind of work the wellness promoter does, and if the certification is important for credibility to the employing organization. CHES stands for "CERTIFIED HEALTH EDUCATION SPECIALIST." Many recent graduates in the wellness and related fields find it helpful to have this certificate. I don't know what percentage of people practicing some form of lifestyle education have consented to the certification process leading to the CHES designation. I understand that it has been available for about 10 years. It is said by its promoters that the requirements for the CHES are based upon standards developed and sustained by the profession itself, that it was a key factor in gaining a Bureau of Labor's occupation classification code and that lobbyists for the CHES process succeeded in getting the legislature of the State of Arkansas to pass legislation that requires health educators practicing in that state to possess the national CHES credential. This, of course, is good for the health educator bureaucrats, but very bad for the public interest, in my opinion, for it gives a monopoly to one professional group. I agree with G.B. Shaw who said a profession (guild, union, etc.) is a conspiracy organized against the laity. Basically, the CHES process is a business for the organization that administers the credentialing. I do not encourage students or others in the wellness field to obtain this certification. I think it's contrary to the best prospects for the creative evolution of the wellness concept for, among other reasons, the certification process could inadvertently lock in or ender sacrosanct existing practices and customs, technologies, concepts and the like, thereby inhibiting the evolution of the art and science of wellness as time goes by. ** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: ** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html ** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu ------------------------------ #1409 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:27:25 -0700 From: walt stoll Subject: Re: Alternatives & critical thinking ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Hi, Andy. I really don't want toget into all this stuff since, 20 years ago (before I had to live it) I would not have believed it either. Remember, for the first 20 years of my professional career, I was a Board Certified Family Practitioner and taught medicine at the medical school for 3 of those years. Until one has lived it, I despair of ANYTHING I have to say convincing anyone. Contact me again in 10-15 years and tell me what you think THEN. By the way, I only criticise "western medicine" for one thing: "It insists on forcing the health camel through the eye of the allopathic needle." I ALWAYS say that the health-care or the 21st century will be a combination of all healing paradigms and that allopathic medicine has to be one of them. Remember, I practiced purely allopathic medicine for half of my career and saw how much better my patients did by not limiting myself to purely allopathic approaches to chronic conditions. There are about 2000 MDs & DOs in this country who have learned the same thing and are in the same unique position of being able to directly compare the difference. One of the main differences is that the Complementary Medical Practitioner has to give up more than 4/5ths of his/her income to practice what helps their patients the best. Why would ANY sane person DO that unless their conscience could let them do no less? The Renner/Barrett subject is not worth my consideration. Just consider how embarassed you are going to be when you understand how you have been duped. What you are missing is that the allopathic paradigm is much too simplistic to evaluate any multifactorial mechanism of illness and that is why allopathic medicine is notoriously ineffective for chronic diseases. More than 80% of all allopathic treatments have not been evaluated on the basis he lists here. However, he wants to hold the feet of harmless & effective (empirically) approaches to the fire of this standard but not the allopathic ones. Why is that? "Humility" is one thing while closed mindedness is another. For example: there has never been a double blind study of Bypass Surgery. Has THAT stopped it from being the routine thing to do for coronary artery conditions? The word science means "seeking truth". I submit that the desperate efforts, by the allopathic monopoly to maintain that monopoly over the system in this country, is NOT scientific! Walt Stoll, MD On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:02:22 -0700 Andrew P Jenkins writes: >** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? >** Email: packer18@flash.net > >Walt Stoll, > >I'd like to return to the discussion of alternative medicine if we >may. >Alternative health care is one of our more timely topics in health >education. You are the HEDIR's most vocal proponent of alternative >medicine and its most open critic of allopathic medicine and >(seemingly) >western science. I have some questions to ask of you and would like >to >hear your point of view on a few items. I believe I (and others) left >off with the concept of CRITICAL THINKING being most important to >health >consumers. > >I doubt that you hope people would dismiss all rational thought and >discard their critical thinking caps when they seek health care. You >have not, however, ever addressed critical thinking and health >consumerism on the HEDIR. Let me see if I can lob you slow pitch and >let you give a swing of the verbal bat: > >Walt Stoll wrote: > > Anyone who quotes Dr. Renner as an "expert" in this area is >suspect. > > Dr Renner, Dr Barrett, Dr Jarvis & Dr Herbert are well known as the >"4 > horsemen of the apocolypse" [sic] who have been sponsored by the >AMA >to claim > anything but the very narrow view of the allopathic monopoly is the >ONLY > valid way to think. ALL that does not fit that paradigm is >"quackery". > > >Dr. Stoll! These are audacious allegations! (Which makes you an >audacious alligator) > >As I mentioned in an earlier post, Steven Barrett, MD has what appears >to be a good >website dedicated to critical thinking. From what you've said (above) >I >believe you and I >would disagree. Please take a moment to offer your evaluation of this >quote from Barrett >that seems to make good sense. Do you agree with his classification >of >"alternatives"? > >In his paper *"Be Wary of Alternative Health Methods," Stephan Barrett >says: > >To avoid confusion, "alternative" methods should be classified as >genuine, experimental, >or questionable. >Genuine alternatives are comparable methods that have met >science-based >criteria for safety >and effectiveness. >Experimental alternatives are unproven but have a plausible rationale >and are undergoing >responsible investigation. >Questionable alternatives are groundless and lack a scientifically >plausible rationale. > > > >This all sounds pretty darned good to a humble health professor like >me! What am I >missing? It sounds like he's promoting cautious skepticism but is not >entirely opposed to >investigation of alternatives. > >What does not make sense with this approach? What does he say here >that >indicates he's >part of the AMA conspiracy? If not critical thinking in the health >care >arena what should we health profs be teaching our students? > >Lastly, if you were to go toe-to-toe with the likes of Drs Renner, >Barrett, Jarvis and >Herbert wielding your own original articles instead of fisticuffs, >what >article of yours would you suggest we all read? ** > >I’m looking forward to your response. > >Fellow HEDIRS: In the spirit of fairness I've listed the web addresses >of Drs. Barrett and Stoll at the bottom of this post. > >Andy J :{) > > > > >* >http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/altwary.html) > >** http://bcn.net/~stoll/index.html > >** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: >** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html >** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ #1410 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:52:42 -0500 From: "Mary A. Wyandt" Subject: Re: CHES ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net >From the moment I went into health education, I knew that I wasn't doing it for the money. Anyone who currently goes into this profession needs to come to the realization that high paying positions are extremely rare. However, just as important as it is for me to be a health educator and for all of the reasons that I believe in this profession, it is just as important for me to support CHES. Yes, I am CHES and proud to be CHES! (Wow, I feel as if I went out on a limb by saying this.) Usually I quietly sit back and read the conversations that go back and forth in HEDIR-land, however, on this issue I cannot sit back any longer. As our profession emerges as a health profession to be accepted by others as the truly distinct profession that it is along with a certain level of expertise needed to truly perform in this multi-discipline area, it is important for health education professionals to have a common thread. That thread is found through the credentialing process, which is a vehicle of indication that a professional is capable of at least the basic competencies that all health educators should possess. It scares me to think that currently almost anyone who hands out a brochure on a health issue can claim that they are a health educator--as we should all know and I hope we agree, handing out a brochure alone does not constitute health education. As this profession continues to develop from its embryonic stages, I firmly believe that credentialing will be a vital component. In addition, as more credentialling occurs, more diverse opportunities for CECH arise. I personally have found this to be the case over the four years that I have been CHES. Also, I believe that the more that credentialling occurs, the more unified the profession will become with commonly recognized entry-level training, code of ethics, employment status, etc. Yes, as an emerging young professional myself, I too have the burdens of finances that others have stated, but then again, who doesn't? I look at the big picture, not just what is before me today. As I look out at the future of my professional aspirations, CHES is a integral part of it. Again I say, "Yes, I am CHES and proud to be CHES". I am glad to live in the state of Arkansas* where attempts to formalize the profession are underway so that health education has the respect and esteem that it rightly deserves among other health professions. I believe that credentialing is a means to achieving that respect and esteem and a way of recognizing the "health educators" from those who "think that they are health educators". It's not a way to restrict practice among those who are qualified health education professionals. *(By the way, I was CHES before moving to Arkansas; so state legislation (although I don't oppose it) has nothing to do with my decision to be CHES. My decision is solely based on my beliefs about current and future aspects of the profession at large.) Mary A. Wyandt, MEd, CHES Phone: 501-575-7252 Health Educator Fax: 501-575-7438 University Health Center E-mail: mwyandt@comp.uark.edu University of Arkansas 600 Razorback Road "HAVE A NICE DAY" :=) Fayetteville, AR 72701 ------------------------------ #1411 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:06:24 -0400 From: ICHFP Subject: health ed activities ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BEC3B1.C1D5E200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone, I am in a primarily administrative position now and don't have the = opportunity to do as many interactive, fun heath education activities as = I'd like. However, when I do want to incorporate those activities into = a training or something else, I find I don't have enough ideas and don't = know where to get ideas. I read the teaching techniques in AAHE's = journal and I remember some from college professors' classes, but don't = know any other place to find activities, especially for adults or = college students. Can you give me ideas on where to find a lot of = health ed. activities in one place? Thanks for the help. _______________________________________________ Shadia Garrison, MPH, CHES Project Director American Medical Student Association/Foundation 1902 Association Drive Reston, VA 20191 703.620.6600 ext. 214 ichfp@www.amsa.org www.amsa.org ------------------------------ #1412 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:23:01 -0400 From: "Judith D. Pierce" Subject: Re: health ed activities ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net I thought that we were asked not to send attachments over the HEDIR..has this changed? Thanks Judith Dwyer Murphy, EdD, CHES Improving Vermont's Executive Director public health by Champlain Valley Area Health Education Center establishing 3 Home Health Circle, Ste 3 educational partnerships St. Albans, VT 05478 with Vermont communities, 802-527-1474, Fx 802-527-1632 health professionals, and its http://www.together.net/~cvahec health training programs. ------------------------------ #1413 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:35:57 -0400 From: Karen Denard Goldman Subject: Re: the future of school health ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Gosh, but I do love a man who knows and shares his history! Those of us who don't know it, they rightly say, are condemned to repeat it. Thanks for the reminder and push re the future of school health and the importance of knowing our own history. kdg At 12:49 PM 6/30/99 -0600, William B. Cissell wrote: >** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? >** Email: packer18@flash.net > >HEDIRs: > > The dialog about the future of school health reminds me >of a discussion I had with Lenore Russell's (Mrs. Bob Russell) >father in 1967 and another discussion I had with Drs. Bill >Griffiths (sixth SOPHE president) and Mayhew Derryberry (second >SOPHE president) in 1971. In the conversation with Lenore's >father, a former teacher and school administrator, the focus was >the cycles of intrest in and support for initiatives in public >schools. His advise was to never be overly optimistic or >overly pessimisitc about trends or initiatives in public education. >They spiral upward for a while and slide in a downward spiral >for a while. > > In 1971, Drs. Griffith and Derryberry were anxious about >the future of health education as an emerging profession that >might never fully emerge. They posed the question, "Will >health education, as a professional discipline, survive the >decade of the 1970s?" Both describe some major threats to >the prospects for this to happen. You may recall that it was during >the 1970s that the President's Committee on Health Education >recommended the establishment of the National Center for >Health Education, the Bureau of Health Education and the Office of >Health Information and Promotion were established as federal >units of operation, the Growing Healthy Curriculum was getting >support from both private and public agencies, and health education, >health promotion, and wellness flourished. > > Sure, there are threats to school health, both as a >professional discipline and as a segment of the public school curriculum, >but there are also many positive influences supporting both. I have >learned to be neither overly optimistic nor overly pessimistic about >any of the trends or initiatives occuring in the public schools or >the greater community. While school health is being threatened >and diminished in some states, it is being supported and flourishes >in others. While health education is being challenged and and >hampered in some areas of the community, it is flourishing in >others. The same goes for health promotion and wellness. The >principles upon which these have been devoloped are far too appealing >and beneficial to be completely eliminated. > > Bill wcissell@twu.edu > >** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: >** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html >** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu > New Home E-Mail address: rlgkdg@flash.net ******************************************************** Karen Denard Goldman, PhD, CHES Director, Undergraduate Health Education and Promotion Program Lehman College, CUNY 422-C Gillet Hall 250 Bedford Park Boulevard West Bronx, NY 10468 Phone: 718-960-8673 email: kgoldman@alpha.lehman.cuny.edu Fax: 718-960-8908 New York State Coalition for Health Education - use above address and numbers to contact the coalition ******************************************************** ------------------------------ #1414 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:53:03 -0400 From: Alyson Taub Subject: Re: Melinda's concern about the expense of CE ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Walter -- Thanks for sharing your valuable perspective. I would like to comment on your two gripes with NCHEC. > I do have two gripes with NCHEC. First, I think that graduate studies > should count for CEUs. If the purpose is to remain current, graduate > studies certainly fill that need. You're right on this point. The NCHEC has been trying to address this for some time now. > Second, I don't like the heavy-handed way NCHEC collects dues. Most > professional certifications come from professional associations and the > dues to the association cover the certification plus journals, etc.. > Not so with NCHEC. For our $25 annual renewal fee, all we get is the > privilege to spend even more money for the CEUs. NCHEC is not a professional association. It is a credentialing agency. It charges fees, not dues. Credentialing agencies are set up as separate entities because professional associations that do their own credentialing are viewed as self-serving, and it is viewed as a conflict of interest. The $25 annual renewal fee that NCHEC charges is a bargain if you compare it to what other credentialing organizations charge. The costs to administer a national credentialing system are enormous. -- Alyson Taub ------------------------------ #1415 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:54:29 -0400 From: Karen Denard Goldman Subject: Re: CHES ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Melinda and colleagues: In response to your concern and that of others, I think you will be pleased to know that a list of all possible continuing education contact hour options will soon be available from the National Commission for Health Education Credentialing, Inc. It won't just be on the website, because everyone can't access that, but soon, everyone will receive through direct mail a list of what options are available...for example, a list of all of the journals approved to offer self-directed learning - read an article, fill out and submit a form, and ok, pay a bit of a fee, and voila, two more credits. I think that all too many of us think we need to go to conferences -pre-approved ones at that - for our credits, and of course, many of us can't afford them. However, now that many health education journals have articles available for self study, and professional organizations have video tapes available for self study, etc., it will not only be less difficult to get the credits - only 15 a year, mind you - it will be possible to get them for studying about issues that truly interest us, not just what's available. I also think that people don't remember that Category 2 credits exist. That you can go to something you think addresses the competencies but wasn't submitted for approval. All you do is submit what's called a Category 2 claim for with the appropriate documentation, and if it fits the bill, that counts, too, for up to 30 hours, I believe, thanks to our new improved policy (that's two out of five years worth of credit that can come from programs not approved in advance for CHES credit)! It's been ten years, folks, and the options are growing. It's getting harder and harder to say that CHES "Can't get to credits". I think only three states in the country didn't offer CHES programs in the past three years. And that's just conferences. Add to that the other options such as journals, videos, distance learning programs, website publications, and you can see we've made great strides. And of course, we will make more. I would also just like to say that what I like about CHES is not that it tells people I have passed a three hour exam, but that it says - I STAY CURRENT IN MY FIELD. I have, indeed, cracked a book or a journal or heard about latest developments. That's the kind of professional development and integrity my CHES makes me proud of and that I hope will have more and more value to employers and clients in the future. Happy 4th of July weekend! kdg - speaking as a private citizen, but a member of the Professional Development Board NCHEC At 06:59 AM 7/1/99 -0400, Melinda K Everman wrote: >** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? >** Email: packer18@flash.net > >Ok. I kinda agree and kinda don't. > >I believe CHES certification (which I have) sets you apart in way. >That you were willing and able to take a 3 hour test. > >I don't have a problem with the certification. >I have a problem with the COST to keep the certification (the Continuing >Education >requirements). have no problems with the CHES certification. But I >think we need to evaluate you needs CHES?? Who are you targeting with the > >CHES certification?? > >In MY opinion (and this is only my opinion) >is that it is expensive to keep up with the continuing education. >It hard to get enough credits a year. A good way to get >CHES credits is to attend conferences. That great. HOWEVER, >most community agencies don't have the money to send or to >pay you to attend. the conferences. (AGAIN I remind you this is my >opinion) >As a young professional in Ohio the pay is around $10 - 15 an hour. > That is really not alot of money. >I know personally I can only attend ONE conference a year. >All the expenses along with the conference (hotel, registration, >presentation, etc.) >come out my own wallet. ANd then I have continuing education expense >on top of it. > >Again this is my opinion. BUT it seems like this field (and I am sure >along with others) ask for alot and are NOT willing to supply the funds. >It has been my experience that organizations what you to have >" X "amount of years of experience, "X" amount of certifications, >"X" amount of publications ...all which cost money. >But the pay in the field is kinda low. > >I have no problems with the CHES certification. But I think we need >to evaluate you needs CHES?? Who are you targeting with the >CHES certification?? >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > >** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: >** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html >** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: /" eudora="autourl">http://www.iejhe.siu.edu > New Home E-Mail address: rlgkdg@flash.net ******************************************************** Karen Denard Goldman, PhD, CHES Director, Undergraduate Health Education and Promotion Program Lehman College, CUNY 422-C Gillet Hall 250 Bedford Park Boulevard West Bronx, NY 10468 Phone: 718-960-8673 email: kgoldman@alpha.lehman.cuny.edu Fax: 718-960-8908 New York State Coalition for Health Education - use above address and numbers to contact the coalition ******************************************************** ------------------------------ #1416 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:00:26 -0400 From: Karen Denard Goldman Subject: Re: Melinda's concern about the expense of CE ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net I understand this concern re costs. I don't know about you, but one thing I've done in my personal budget is set aside a specific amount for my professional development. It's not a lot, all things considered, but each year I set aside money for three professional organization memberships and one conference. If I "get lucky" with a grant, I sometimes can do more, and that's happened for the past two years. I tack on a vacation sometimes to the trip to the conference. I am not rich and don't expect to be. But, within my budget, I have set aside enough money to guarantee that I can get 15 hours of credit a year, somehow. Because, as a health educator, which is how I identify myself, being up to date in my field is a primary value. kdg At 09:54 PM 6/30/99 -0500, Cathy Nickels wrote: >** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? >** Email: packer18@flash.net > >Yes, the Journal reading is easy and helpful, but the memberships >required by some journals to submit CHES articles is restrictive. It IS >hard to make the money work for this matter. > >Cathy >cathy@summex.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: William B. Cissell [mailto:WCissell@TWU.EDU] >Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 8:16 PM >To: HEDIR-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: Melinda's concern about the expense of CE > > >** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? >** Email: packer18@flash.net > >Melinda (and others interested in this topic): > > First, your opinion on this topic is as valuable >as that of any old mossback's, including mine. You need >not apologize for expressing it. > > Second, our field has been fairly innovative in >finding ways to help entry level health educators earn >CHES ceu's. You can earn them by reading articles in >journals, including those sponsored by SOPHE, AAHE, and >the group headed up by E. D. Glover and Jim Eddy. You can >read articles online through the Electronic International >Journal of Health Education, managed by our own Mark Kittleson >and advertized right here on HEDIR. Since the cost for an >hour of CHES CEU is typically less than for that of a movie >ticket or admission to a run of the mill professional sports >event (much less a postseason playoff event), earning these >can usually be fairly inexpensive. > > Some folks prefer to earn their ceu's at a conference >or convention. I have found that paying for my ceu's is a >relatively minor part of conference and convention expenses. >I still attend, for the most part, the same conferences and >conventions I attended before I started earning CHES ceu's. >Thus, the bulk of the costs associated with attending them >have almost nothing to do with earning the ceu's. For those >with small expense accounts, as I have had most of my career >(East Tennessee State University gave each faculty member $75 >per year from the departmental budget to attend professional >conference, and I never got a dime for travel to professional >events from the University of Texas in Austin during the two >years I was employed there.), state/regional chapter meetings >offer a less expensive option over national and international >meetings. Also, colleges and universities freqently offer >ceu opportunities that are far less expensive than traaveling >out-of-state. > > Melinda and all others early in your careers, I wish >you the best of success and encourage you to view the expenses >of professional affiliation as money well spent. I sure have >spent bundle in this pursuit over my career. > > Bill > > >** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: >** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html >** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu > >** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: >** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html >** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu > New Home E-Mail address: rlgkdg@flash.net ******************************************************** Karen Denard Goldman, PhD, CHES Director, Undergraduate Health Education and Promotion Program Lehman College, CUNY 422-C Gillet Hall 250 Bedford Park Boulevard West Bronx, NY 10468 Phone: 718-960-8673 email: kgoldman@alpha.lehman.cuny.edu Fax: 718-960-8908 New York State Coalition for Health Education - use above address and numbers to contact the coalition ******************************************************** ------------------------------ #1417 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:05:17 -0600 From: Theresa Byrd Subject: Re: CHES ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net I do not have the CHES, but I have heard people complain about the cost. I was surprised to find out that CHES folk have to pay (WHO?) for the CHES credits--above and beyond the cost of the conference/workshop. I have to get a certain number of CEUs to hold onto my nursing license, but I don't have to pay to do that. I just take the classes, collect the certificates, and then have them available for the nursing board. Why is it different with CHES? At 06:59 AM 7/1/99 -0400, you wrote: >** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? >** Email: packer18@flash.net > >Ok. I kinda agree and kinda don't. > >I believe CHES certification (which I have) sets you apart in way. >That you were willing and able to take a 3 hour test. > >I don't have a problem with the certification. >I have a problem with the COST to keep the certification (the Continuing >Education >requirements). have no problems with the CHES certification. But I >think we need to evaluate you needs CHES?? Who are you targeting with the > >CHES certification?? > >In MY opinion (and this is only my opinion) >is that it is expensive to keep up with the continuing education. >It hard to get enough credits a year. A good way to get >CHES credits is to attend conferences. That great. HOWEVER, >most community agencies don't have the money to send or to >pay you to attend. the conferences. (AGAIN I remind you this is my >opinion) >As a young professional in Ohio the pay is around $10 - 15 an hour. > That is really not alot of money. >I know personally I can only attend ONE conference a year. >All the expenses along with the conference (hotel, registration, >presentation, etc.) >come out my own wallet. ANd then I have continuing education expense >on top of it. > >Again this is my opinion. BUT it seems like this field (and I am sure >along with others) ask for alot and are NOT willing to supply the funds. >It has been my experience that organizations what you to have >" X "amount of years of experience, "X" amount of certifications, >"X" amount of publications ...all which cost money. >But the pay in the field is kinda low. > >I have no problems with the CHES certification. But I think we need >to evaluate you needs CHES?? Who are you targeting with the >CHES certification?? >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > >** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: >** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html >** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu > > Theresa Byrd, RN, Dr.P.H. Assistant Professor University of Texas-Houston School of Public Health at El Paso 1100 N. Stanton, Suite 110 El Paso, TX 79902 (915) 747-8504 ------------------------------ #1418 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:32:44 -0500 From: "Marjorie E. Scaffa" Subject: Re: Fusion ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Mark, I totally agree with your assessment regarding the need to train students for the NEW economy. They need to be MORE than generalists- they need to be "multiple option" players (as they say in the sports world). Flexibility, diversification, and innovation are the keys to thriving in the new economy. But these characteristics are often more related to personality and the ability to change and thrive in ambiguity. How do we train for this? Some students seem to embrace these concepts while others become very distressed and outright angry that these traits are required. Maybe we need to screen for this in the admissions process? But how? I see the future as exciting and full of possibilities for health education and other health-related disciplines. I hope others see the future in the same way, not only embracing change but initiating it. Thanks so much for the food for thought. It inspired me !!! Marjorie Scaffa On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Mark Fulop wrote: > ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? > ** Email: packer18@flash.net > > I love the diversity of this list and how we keep swinging around some of the same subjects over and over. It is interesting to see us able to compress coversations, once held annually we we met face-to-face at SOPHE or APHA and now we ongoingly dialogue about the themes near and dear to our hearts. > > Here is a thought. Instead of wacking credetials, training genralists, worrying about school health and discreditiing on line health information maybe we should help prepare ourselves and those we teach by offering a fusion of all of these topics. I beleive this is more than saying "so what else is new - you students need to be generalists." When I taught as an adjunct faculty, I got blank stares and glazed looks when I tried to give students the reality of the new economy (serial mini-careers, self-directed IRAs, strength of ones Network). Again, I think it is up to academics to prepare our students to be functional in the new economy. > > (Lest you think this endemic only to health education, I was intervieiwing folks for a webmaster/database specialist for one of the Federal grants I manage and we ended up hiring someone without an associates degree over a recent computer science graduate from Stanford. The contrast about who understood how to survive in the new economy was dramatic. > > I was reading an article this am on High tech and health care. In it they suggest: "The future looks bright for college-educated high-tech workers who want to enter the healthcare industry and experienced clinicians who want to delve into technology, experts predict." (http://healthcare.monster.com/articles/combination.stm). > > What if we offered hybrid degrees: Majors in health education with minors in marketing, ed technology, computer or library science? What about demanding competency-based internships instead of the 3 F's (file, faxing, fetching) We are talking generalist when we need to be talking "new economy specialists." These folks might need CHES as a marker to their health education skills but they need the ability to do the self-taught garage innovations that Don (yes, I do occasionally read his posts) was talking about. This fusion is happening all around us. In another article in Business 2.0 (http://www.business2.com) NEW JOBS FOR THE NEW ECONOMY, they outlined fusion of soft science with computer science and pitched new titles such as Virtual Organization Leader, Content cngineer, Chief Community Strategist. > > What about it. Anyone interested in creating models of Fusion? > > Mark > > > > Mark Fulop, MA, MPH, CHES > Director, Clearinghouse Services > ETR Associates > 4 Carbonero Way > Scotts Valley, CA 95066 > > 831-438-4822, Ext 214 > 831-438-3618 Fax > markf@etr-associates.org > > ** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: > ** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html > ** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu > ------------------------------ #1419 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:43:05 -0700 From: Mark Fulop Subject: Re: CHES ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net >>> Theresa Byrd I do not have the CHES, but I have heard people complain about the cost. I was surprised to find out that CHES folk have to pay (WHO?) for the CHES credits--above and beyond the cost of the conference/workshop. I have to get a certain number of CEUs to hold onto my nursing license, but I don't have to pay to do that. I just take the classes, collect the certificates, and then have them available for the nursing board. Why is it different with CHES?<< Well, technically, nursing ceu's are not free either. It is just that much of the rest of the medical profession covers the cost on the back end and does not pass the cost on to you the nurse consumer. My experience in planning conferences that offered ceu's, CHES units cost more than nursing CEU's and the paperwork is high relative to the number of certificates (which are low) processed, so that conference planners charge for CHES units to off-set the higher dollar and time costs. Mark ------------------------------ #1420 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:13:35 -0700 From: "Boyle, Jamie" Subject: Re: CHES ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEC3E4.C9E078A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Our SOPHE chapter offers CHES for at least two programs a year, as well as serving as a CHES provider for other local organizations and the programs they put on. Our chapter charges $5/unit, and $4 goes directly to NCHEC, so you can see that we are not really off-setting our administrative costs. Our chapter recognizes that CHES is expensive, so we try to compensate by keeping the program fees low. > My experience in planning conferences > that offered ceu's, CHES units cost more than nursing CEU's > and the paperwork is high relative to the number of > certificates (which are low) processed, so that conference > planners charge for CHES units to off-set the higher dollar > and time costs. Jamie Boyle, MPH, CHES President, Southern California SOPHE ------------------------------ #1421 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:53:11 -0700 From: j c Subject: CHES debate ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Dear All, I'm also one who usually just sits back and reads other's comments but this time, well here goes........ I have been teaching health for 33 years. (Boy does that make me a dinosaur!) I am not a CHES but I think I am a Health Education Specialist. I am still wondering why I should become CHES. If a person is in the health field and does not keep up with current information, they would certaintly be left behind and really be a dinosaur. I am certified to teach health in VA, TN, and NC, and have a MA with special emphasis in health. I have also been VA's Health Educator of the year and SDAAHPERD's Health Educator of the year. (Not bragging, just want you to know I'm not out of it) I attend state, district, and national conferences on a regular basis and anything else that comes up that is of interest so CEU's are not the problem with my joining.. I just can't see the need and now with this discussion of fees... Can someone tell me why I should become CHES??.. On the other hand, if I will obtain National Board Certification in one of the following areas (Note Health and Physical Education are not listed), then VA will be give me a $5000.00 step increase the first year and annual increases of (I think) $2000.00 for renewal for (I think 5 OR 10 years). I don't have that information available right now. (I will try to find it and post later). Areas of certification: Early childhood/Gen ages 3-8 Middle childh/gen ages 7-12 early adol/gen ages 11-15 early adol/eng ages 11-15 early adol thru young adult/art ages 11-18+ adol and early adult/math 14-18+ adol and young adult science 14-18+ early adol/science 11-15 early adol/math 11-15 early adol/social studies/hist 11-15 adol and young adult/english 14-18+ adol and young adult/social studies/history 14-18+ early childh thru young adult/exceptional needs 3-18+ early adolescence thru young adult/vocational ed 11-18+ the rest listed were for teaching english as a second language..... Now if CHES were added to that list,, I can see why I might want to become certified. Otherwise you tell me why..... I'm not trying to be a smartie. Just want to know more about the organization of CHES. How started? Why? By Whom? and Who gets the money? OK! Hit me with it! Or over the head! Judy J. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ #1422 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:35:19 -0700 From: Andrew P Jenkins Subject: CHES & Proof ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7A95C7CB99945362D96B2C15 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit j c wrote: I am certified to teach health > in VA, TN, and NC, and have a MA with special > emphasis in health. I have also been VA's > Health Educator of the year and SDAAHPERD's > Health Educator of the year. ... Can > someone tell me why I should become CHES??.. Good questions Judy. I don't think CHES would help your marketability much. You have years of exemplary experience and other credentials which would likely speak louder than the CHES. On the other hand, if you were fresh out of school and just starting out--it would help ensure a certain level of competency that was yet to be proved by you. Andy J :{) ------------------------------ #1423 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:27:20 -0500 From: Barbara Ellen Giloth Subject: Re: CHES cost ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Part of the cost issue for health education credentialling is that since there was no unified health education professional organization....a new credentialling body was set-up. While the staff and boards have tried to be careful re budget, there does need to be income to support the overall credentially process. CEUs for dietitians are handled by the ADA and it's free, for example. There are also a lot more of them...as the number of CHES grows, at a certain point there should be some economies of scale. Barbara E. Giloth, MPH, CHES Chicago, IL 773/743-8206 voice mail 773/262-0986 fax ------------------------------ #1424 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:58:47 -0400 From: William B Cosgrove Subject: Re: CHES ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net In an effort to ensure that the facts remain correct in the ongoing HEDIR debate concerning the CHES costs I am compelled to state for the record that the figure Ms. Boyle quotes as going directly to NCHEC per CE credit is in error. Her SOPHE chapter may very well collect $5.00 per credit from the CHES. But the amount charged CHES by NCHEC and the amount received from SOPHE (and all providers) to NCHEC is, and always has been, $2.00 per credit, no more no less. Thank you. WBCosgrove, Executive Director, NCHEC, Inc. ---------- From: Boyle, Jamie[SMTP:JBoyle@HCA.CO.ORANGE.CA.US] Reply To: Boyle, Jamie Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 1:13 PM To: HEDIR-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: CHES <> Our SOPHE chapter offers CHES for at least two programs a year, as well as serving as a CHES provider for other local organizations and the programs they put on. Our chapter charges $5/unit, and $4 goes directly to NCHEC, so you can see that we are not really off-setting our administrative costs. Our chapter recognizes that CHES is expensive, so we try to compensate by keeping the program fees low. > My experience in planning conferences > that offered ceu's, CHES units cost more than nursing CEU's > and the paperwork is high relative to the number of > certificates (which are low) processed, so that conference > planners charge for CHES units to off-set the higher dollar > and time costs. Jamie Boyle, MPH, CHES President, Southern California SOPHE ------------------------------ #1425 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:56:13 -0400 From: ICHFP Subject: intern position ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00EA_01BEC3D1.DCE18160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please forward this to any students you think may be interested. Thank = you. Health Education Intern Position Available Start date: mid-August to early September for position of 6-8 weeks in = length Must be graduate student in health education Must have excellent research and writing skills You will:=20 Research health education and how it relates to interdisciplinary health = professions teams, medicine, and community organizations Write informational module on health education for health professionals = and students in health professions fields. Module will be published by = AMSA with credit given to intern. Pay is $350 per week plus free housing near place of work. Please no phone calls or emails. Send your cv, cover letter, writing = sample, and names/contact info for three references. Resumes accepted = up until July 23 but the sooner, the better. Send to AMSA, ICHFP, 1902 Association Drive, Reston, VA 20191=20 _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ #1426 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:07:57 -0500 From: Barbara Hager Subject: Weighing in on CHES ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net As one of the ones in Arkansas who took a giant step and worked to pass a state mandate for CHES, I feel the need to speak up. Our reasons for taking this action were self-serving...to the profession. I received my degree in health education, know what health education is, walk the walk and talk the talk and quite frankly I'm tired of folks calling themselves health educators without the degree and without really performing health education duties. All public health professionals should provide health education as part of their job. Not all public health professionals should be able to call themselves health educators, if they don't have the academic training and don't keep up with the field. CHES assures that these folks are keeping current through continuing education. Health Educators in Arkansas (and I'm sure everywhere) stand behind their product. Their degree, and yes, their credential of CHES says to all who care to listen that you are guaranteed a person who at least should know what he or she is doing. Of course, there are always exceptions to that rule. And there are some people out there that "by hook or by crook" are able to be "natural health educators." I would even go so far to say that we, in health education, have looked at their approaches and incorporated them into ours, sometimes after research and evaluation, sometimes not. It would be foolish to say that everything in "Health Educator Land" is wonderful. There have been complications; there have been and will continue to be challenges. But you know what? We got out there and did it. One benefit has been upgrades and raises for all the health educators in state government this legislative session. And that was to compete with all the folks in the private sector who know that trained and credentialed health educators are a wonderful resource and work very hard to steal them away from us! For those who say you don't get paid enough (and we surely did), we are so pleased to be paid a bit more. We are the big experiment. Trade restriction? Maybe. Eligibility for third party reimbursement eventually? Probably. More respect in the public health community in Arkansas? Definitely. Stay tuned. ------------------------------ #1427 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:27:27 -0700 From: walt stoll Subject: Re: Strike one ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Hi, Brian. I am surprised at your note although I see it as reasoned & objective. Did you read my entire response or just the first few lines? My response will likely be viewed as "strike two". However, it is not my place to do anyone's research for them--since they would likely consider that I had only sought those things that supported my convictions. Neither is it my place to try to convince anyone of the validity of my convictions. I had to come to my convictions honestly (AND reluctantly) through daily experience for more than 30 years. I have done my learning in the trenches of seeing my patients get well when they did not before. I have seen dozens of my colleagues lose their licenses for offering their patients complementary approaches just as I did. I was a founding member of the AHMA (American Holistic Medical Association) and served on their Board of Trustees for many years. Perhaps they would have the resources to help those who are truly seeking the information you mentioned. I do not. Please do not call these approaches "alternative" they are COMPLEMENTARY to conventional medicine. I hope you will take this note in the spirit in which it is offered AND I hope you will remember to come back in a few years & tell me that you begin to see what I have been talking about. In the meantime, it is not only the "public" that is suffering under this system of disinformation designed for only one purpose: the perpetuation of a monopoly. It isNOT for the benefit of the public. Health Educators are no better informed than the public about this because of the Tolstoy Effect. If you are unaware of the Tolstoy Effect, you can find it on the beginning page of Don Read's & my article in the introductory issue of the IEJHE sponsored by this forum. Walt On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:03:15 -0400 (EST) "Dr. Brian Colwell" writes: > >At 06:27 PM 6/30/99 -0700, you wrote: > >>The Renner/Barrett subject is not worth my consideration. Just >consider >>how embarassed you are going to be when you understand how you have >been >>duped. > > >Walt, > >While you occasionally make me nuts, I still have come to respect you, >even >if I disagree with you. This response, though, was below you. I >think Andy >asked some good questions and I feel like you ducked them. Basically >many >of us are strong supporters of "traditional allopathic" medicine, yet >many >of us are also open-minded enough to believe that there may be >alternative >approaches to the treatment of some conditions which have not been >used. >Andy gave you the chance to respond in a way that argued from a point >of >logic, but you responded in a condescending way that did nothing to >further >the debate. > >>The word science means "seeking truth". I submit that the desperate >>efforts, by the allopathic monopoly to maintain that monopoly over >the >>system in this country, is NOT scientific! > >I have to submit that your response did nothing to help those of us >watching >with interest to come any closer to finding the truth that we are >seeking. >Andy said he was serving up a nice, fat lob for you & it appears to me >that >you missed. Strike one. I would encourage you to reconsider his >questions >and your response and give it another try, remembering that a lot of >us >lurking are waiting to see if you, as a vocal supporter of >alternative >approaches, can defend such an approach. > >My suggestion would be to deal with the following issues that Andy >raised: >1. Barrett's suggestions related to critical thinking. >2. Barrett's categorization of alternative methods. >3. The concept of cautious skepticism. >4. Your writings that you would hold up to Renner et al. > >5. My personal issue: Perhaps you could summarize the work of Renner >et al., >its strengths, weaknesses, etc. Areas in which you agree & disagree >with >them. Their work is not in my personal area of research & teaching, >so I am >unfamiliar with it. (So much for that self-image I have of being >well-informed!) > >Waiting hopefully, > >Brian > > > >Brian Colwell, Ph.D., CHES >Associate Professor >Dept. of Social & Behavioral Health >Texas A&M School of Rural Public Health > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ #1428 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:47:21 -0700 From: Mark Fulop Subject: Re: Fusion ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net >>> "Marjorie E. Scaffa wrote: I totally agree with your assessment regarding the need to train students for the NEW economy. They need to be MORE than generalists- they need to be "multiple option" players (as they say in the sports world). Flexibility, diversification, and innovation are the keys to thriving in the new economy. But these characteristics are often more related to personality and the ability to change and thrive in ambiguity. How do we train for this? Some students seem to embrace these concepts while others become very distressed and outright angry that these traits are required. Maybe we need to screen for this in the admissions process? But how? --------- Majorie's, I too have experienced the resistance of students to embrace the new economy "multiple option" metrics. However, as I suggested yesterday that I believe this is endemic to all students not just health education majors. Unfortunately, we are talking about street survival skills that student will develop over time or remain hopelessly underpaid. But I was also talking at a different level. Could it be that some of our academic programs are not oriented to teaching in the context of the New Economy and that as academic programs we actually have some of the same "very distressed and outright angry" reactions to the suggestion that we need to address new economy skills in our teaching? To me the model is clear. Undergrad majors should do just enough health education (to get CHES certified) and then spends the rest of their academic dollars in a digital major (marketing, business, communications, computers, library science). Then then connect this academic experieince with a real internships that are performance based and somehow, the students need to get electronically networked and begin to reading outside of the health education discipline. We need to teach courses not only in grant writing but in how to be multiple option players and how to structure ones own career. Required texts should be Thomas Stewart's Intellectual Capital and Taylor and Wacker's 500 Year Delta. Just some more thoughts Mark Mark Fulop, MA, MPH, CHES Director, Clearinghouse Services ETR Associates 4 Carbonero Way Scotts Valley, CA 95066 831-438-4822, Ext 214 831-438-3618 Fax markf@etr-associates.org ------------------------------ #1429 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:49:40 -0400 From: Susan Wooley Subject: Re: CHES ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net ASHA is a CE provider for both CHES and nursing. Each credentialing body charges fees, but the fee structure varies. We pay a LOT more to the nursing credentialing group than to the National Commission to be a provider. Some organizations eat the cost, some get it reimbursed through other means, some charge the consumer. Somewhere someone is paying, even if you are not. Susan Wooley, Ph.D., CHES American School Health Association 7263 State Route 43 P. O. Box 708 Kent, OH 44240 330-678-1601; 330-678-4526 FAX e-mail: swooley@ashaweb.org On Thursday, July 01, 1999 12:43 PM, Mark Fulop [SMTP:markf@ETR.ORG] wrote: > ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? > ** Email: packer18@flash.net > > >>> Theresa Byrd > I do not have the CHES, but I have heard people complain about the cost. I > was surprised to find out that CHES folk have to pay (WHO?) for the CHES > credits--above and beyond the cost of the conference/workshop. I have to > get a certain number of CEUs to hold onto my nursing license, but I don't > have to pay to do that. I just take the classes, collect the certificates, > and then have them available for the nursing board. Why is it different > with CHES?<< > > Well, technically, nursing ceu's are not free either. It is just that much of the rest of the medical profession covers the cost on the back end and does not pass the cost on to you the nurse consumer. My experience in planning conferences that offered ceu's, CHES units cost more than nursing CEU's and the paperwork is high relative to the number of certificates (which are low) processed, so that conference planners charge for CHES units to off-set the higher dollar and time costs. > > Mark > > ** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: > ** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html > ** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu ------------------------------ #1430 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:48:35 -0500 From: Michael Pejsach Subject: Re: Melinda's concern about the expense of CE ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Thanks, Bill. Excellent points, as usual. FYI, we're giving it away for free: CHES CECHs will be available at no cost for folks registering for any of our training cruises and home/office-based continuing education events: We're also reducing all of our travel costs on a five and seven day CRUISE FOR SCHOOL HEALTH, and will include CHES CECHs (CEUs) at no extra cost! You can earn up to 25 CECHs, FREE(!), visit a few spots, become certified to use THTM, the Michigan Model, or Know Your Body (for example). Look for a five-day Christmas Holiday Training for under $1,000 (room ,board and registration- where else can you get a room and meals for less than $200/day - four nights?). If you're interested, let me know. New pricing, agendas, etc. will be on the CEEH/HEEF, School Health Web Page: http://healthbehavior.com Don't let this one disappear. Also: CHES CECH will available FREE for any of our On-LINE HEalth Education Continuing Ed courses! Registration fees will be less than $50 for each five week course (meeting once a week for about 1-1.5 hours). FREE CHES CECHs FROM HOME or OFFICE. One price, flexible times, easy access (software is $100) for a real time audio and video conference course. On a five-week course, earn up to 5 CHES CECH FREE! Kinda reminds me of the time we brought a portable mammogram unit to a large power plan in the New Orleans area so that the electric company's female employees could get a fast/mostly painless screening mammogram and couldn't use the typical "I can't get out of the office to get to the doctor...." Our screening mammogram program had the sub title of "no more excuses---do it today and stay healthy." Some of our clients still did not get their screening mammograms (even though everyone who did thought it was a Very Good or Excellent service and our technicians were rated very highly) . There's always a problem with those laggards isn't there? Anyone have any idea on the percentage of Health Education technology laggards out there? Bottom line: There are NO EXCUSES not to get the CHES and take CECHs (CEUs). Michael "William B. Cissell" wrote: > ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? > ** Email: packer18@flash.net > > Melinda (and others interested in this topic): > > First, your opinion on this topic is as valuable > as that of any old mossback's, including mine. You need > not apologize for expressing it. > > Second, our field has been fairly innovative in > finding ways to help entry level health educators earn > CHES ceu's. You can earn them by reading articles in > journals, including those sponsored by SOPHE, AAHE, and > the group headed up by E. D. Glover and Jim Eddy. You can > read articles online through the Electronic International > Journal of Health Education, managed by our own Mark Kittleson > and advertized right here on HEDIR. Since the cost for an > hour of CHES CEU is typically less than for that of a movie > ticket or admission to a run of the mill professional sports > event (much less a postseason playoff event), earning these > can usually be fairly inexpensive. > > Some folks prefer to earn their ceu's at a conference > or convention. I have found that paying for my ceu's is a > relatively minor part of conference and convention expenses. > I still attend, for the most part, the same conferences and > conventions I attended before I started earning CHES ceu's. > Thus, the bulk of the costs associated with attending them > have almost nothing to do with earning the ceu's. For those > with small expense accounts, as I have had most of my career > (East Tennessee State University gave each faculty member $75 > per year from the departmental budget to attend professional > conference, and I never got a dime for travel to professional > events from the University of Texas in Austin during the two > years I was employed there.), state/regional chapter meetings > offer a less expensive option over national and international > meetings. Also, colleges and universities freqently offer > ceu opportunities that are far less expensive than traaveling > out-of-state. > > Melinda and all others early in your careers, I wish > you the best of success and encourage you to view the expenses > of professional affiliation as money well spent. I sure have > spent bundle in this pursuit over my career. > > Bill > > ** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: > ** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html > ** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu -- Michael Pejsach, Ed.D., CHES Life&Health Enhancement Services, Inc. 59 Monterrey Drive Kenner, LA 70065-3142 (504) 887-5425 (504) 443-5546 (fax) http://www.healthbehavior.com pejsach1@flash.net ------------------------------ #1431 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:21:28 -0500 From: Cathy Nickels Subject: American Red Cross ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Hello everyone. I recollect that someone out there has mentioned that they work for the American Red Cross. I would like to make contact with that person. Could you please let me know who you are? I'd like to ask you some questions..... Thanks Cathy Nickels, MS, CHES Health Educator Summex Corporation 317-630-3456 cathy@summex.com ------------------------------ #1432 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:35:18 -0500 From: Renee Royak-Schaler Subject: Unsubscribe ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Please remove me from this list. Thank you. Renee Royak-Schaler Renee Royak-Schaler Ph.D. ROYAK@auhs.edu Associate Professor School of Public Health MCP Hahnemann University (215)762-6511 (phone); (215)762-4088 (fax) ------------------------------ #1433 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:42:25 -0000 From: Eileen Kalinowski Subject: unsubscribe ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Please remove me from this list. Thank you. ------------------------------ #1434 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:40:51 -0500 From: Mollie Howerton Subject: unsubscribe ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Please take me off of the list. mwhowert@indiana.edu ------------------------------ #1435 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:25:46 -0700 From: "Boyle, Jamie" Subject: Re: CHES ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEC4A7.46582C5E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My apologies to the group for providing incorrect information, and thank you to all who emailed me to clarify the cost per CHES unit. It's a good thing that I am President and not CEU coordinator... ;-) Our chapter's CHES provider number is provided through National SOPHE. We pay $3/unit ($4/unit for non-SOPHE members) directly to SOPHE. They keep $1/unit, and then pay NCHEC $2/unit. Our chapter still only makes $1-2/unit (we do not restrict our programs to only SOPHE members, and a flat CHES rate is simpler for bookkeeping). I was just unclear on where the rest of the money was going. To those of you who are able to internalize the costs of CHES - congratulations! I hope that our chapter will be able to offer that type of service to our members in the future... Jamie Boyle, MPH, CHES President, Southern California SOPHE > In an effort to ensure that the facts remain correct in the > ongoing HEDIR debate concerning the CHES costs I am compelled > to state for the record that the figure Ms. Boyle quotes as > going directly to NCHEC per CE credit is in error. Her SOPHE > chapter may very well collect $5.00 per credit from the CHES. > But the amount charged CHES by NCHEC and the amount received > from SOPHE (and all providers) to NCHEC is, and always has > been, $2.00 per credit, no more no less. > Thank you. > WBCosgrove, > Executive Director, NCHEC, Inc. > ------------------------------ #1436 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:28:31 -0400 From: Healthy Concepts Subject: temporary unsubscribe ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net I will be away from my office from July 4 through July 14th. Please temporarily remove my name from the list. (Mark- do I need to do something when I return, or will I automatically be resubscribed?) Thanks. Lisa Lieberman ------------------------------ #1437 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:49:40 -0400 From: Becky Smith Subject: FW: CHES debate ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net This posting is in response to Judy Johnson, from Virginia(see her note >below), and others interested in pursuing master teacher certification in >health education from the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards: >I have been updated just this week by Charles E. Cascio, who is the NBPTS >Vice President for Certification Standards and Teacher Development on the >status of Health Education. He indicated that the call for nominations and >applications to serve on the expert panel for the Development of the Health >Education Standards will be out in the next month or two. It is also his >anticipation that the screening and review of those applications will be >completed in time for the health education development panel to be approved >at the October, 1999 NBPTS Board of Directors meeting. >Once the health education standards are completed, reviewed, and revised, a >NBPTS certification in Health Education will be available. The American >Association for Health Education (AAHE) will certainly be urging that a wide >diversity of candidates apply for the Health Education Standards Committee. >When we recieve information on the application process, we will post it to >the HE-DIR. If you would like to monitor this process directly the National >Board for Professional Teaching Standards website is www.nbpts.org >Judy, you are correct when you indicate that state and national teaching >certifications may be of equal or more importance than the CHES to health >education teachers in the k-12 settings. Leaders of the professional >associations are well aware that there are multiple credentialing and >accrediting agencies in this country which of are of interest and importance >to health education professionals. The leadership works actively to ensure >that health educators are provided opportunities that allow them to compete >successfully in the market place and reap rewards similiar to others in their >worksettings. It was the result of direct intervention with the National >Board for Professional Teaching Standards by past presidents of AAHE and the >National Association for Sport and Physical Education (NASPE) - (and many >letters of support from the members of both organizations in a letter writing >campaign) - that resulted in the NBPTS commitment to have both a health >education certification and a physical education certification - so be >assured that your subjects will soon be on the list of approved areas of >certification. If you have additional questions on this, please let me know. >Becky J. Smith, Ph.D, CHES, CAE >Executive Director >American Association for Health Education >1900 Association Dr. >Reston, VA 20191 >703-476-3437 >Fax: 703-476-6638 >email: bsmith@aahperd.org >http://www.aahperd.org/aahe > >---------- >From: j c[SMTP:jcjohnso@ROCKETMAIL.COM] >Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 1:53 PM >To: HEDIR-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: CHES debate > >** Want Internet and e-mail service for $12.50/month? >** Email: packer18@flash.net > >Dear All, > > I'm also one who usually just sits back and >reads other's comments but this time, well here >goes........ > > I have been teaching health for 33 years. >(Boy does that make me a dinosaur!) I am not a >CHES but I think I am a Health Education >Specialist. I am still wondering why I should >become CHES. If a person is in the health field >and does not keep up with current information, >they would certaintly be left behind and really >be a dinosaur. I am certified to teach health >in VA, TN, and NC, and have a MA with special >emphasis in health. I have also been VA's >Health Educator of the year and SDAAHPERD's >Health Educator of the year. (Not bragging, >just want you to know I'm not out of it) I >attend state, district, and national conferences >on a regular basis and anything else that comes >up that is of interest so CEU's are not the >problem with my joining.. I just can't see the >need and now with this discussion of fees... Can >someone tell me why I should become CHES??.. > > On the other hand, if I will obtain >National Board Certification in one of the >following areas >(Note Health and Physical Education are not >listed), then VA will be give me a $5000.00 step >increase the first year and annual increases of >(I think) $2000.00 for renewal for (I think 5 OR >10 years). I don't have that information >available right now. (I will try to find it and >post later). > Areas of certification: >Early childhood/Gen ages 3-8 >Middle childh/gen ages 7-12 >early adol/gen ages 11-15 >early adol/eng ages 11-15 >early adol thru young adult/art ages 11-18+ >adol and early adult/math 14-18+ >adol and young adult science 14-18+ >early adol/science 11-15 >early adol/math 11-15 >early adol/social studies/hist 11-15 >adol and young adult/english 14-18+ >adol and young adult/social studies/history 14-18+ >early childh thru young adult/exceptional needs >3-18+ >early adolescence thru young adult/vocational ed >11-18+ > >the rest listed were for teaching english as a >second language..... > > Now if CHES were added to that list,, I can >see why I might want to become certified. >Otherwise you tell me why..... I'm not trying to >be a smartie. Just want to know more about the >organization of CHES. How started? Why? By >Whom? and Who gets the money? > > OK! Hit me with it! Or over the head! > Judy J. > > > > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: >** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html >** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu > > ------------------------------ #1438 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:27:10 EDT From: Andy Frank Subject: CHES - more fuel for the fire ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net I just got back from a vacation and returned to the prospect of digesting nearly a week's worth of CHES discussion in one gulp. So here's my two cents worth: 1. I do not have CHES certification, and I hope NEVER to get one. If I am "compelled" to get one in order to get a job in this field, I will abandon this profession, as much as I love it. I find it insulting and inane that a person with great credentials, colleagial references, work experience, and degree background in health education would ever be disqualified from a professional health education job SOLELY because he or she lacks the CHES credential. If Arkansas is the wave of the future, I cringe for our profession. IMHO, CHES is merely a symptom of the DEVALUATION of college degrees -- in many fields, but especially in health education. Perhaps it is TOO EASY to get a degree in health ed compared to nursing, physical therapy, and other allied health professions. In my undergrad days (ok, so that admittedly was 20 years ago), a few of my fellow health ed majors were people who couldn't make the grade in other degree programs and defaulted to a degree in health ed, or they went after an easy "add on" health ed minor. What does it mean to get a BACHELOR's degree or even a MASTERS in ANY field these days, let alone in health education? With all the diploma mills abounding, often not much. The only point of requiring a 4 year degree program graduate with abundantly FRESH health education knowledge to sit for a silly "comprehensive" (?) 3 hour CHES exam is if our profession believes the granting of a health ed degree is not directly correlated to or indicative of knowledge competence in the field. If our field is graduating intellectually competent students from solid health education programs, then why not grant automatic CHES status to ALL new graduates of accredited health education programs and simply require continuing education credits later to maintain CHES status? Instead, the stated need for CHES certification directly implies that a degree in health ed is simply 4 years of college course pablum. If that is the case, how can a mere 3 hour CHES exam make up for this deficiency and bring any sort of distinction to our field? Ultimately, only health education professors and bachelor's and master's programs which hold health ed students to high standards can do that. What CHES advocates are really intimating is that CHES certification would be unnecessary if the hoops health ed majors had to jump through were higher and a degree in health education had more social recognition. From my own personal experience, it has been my masters degree from PURDUE (a school with a solid academic reputation) that has clinched jobs for me, not my degrees in community health education and health promotion. I personally thank professors like Gerry Hyner, Chris Melby, Harold Veenker at Purdue and teachers like Bob Jecklin, Peg Dosch, Dick Pappenfus, A.B. Culver, Gary Gilmore, and Gerry Matheson at UW-La Crosse for raising the bar and making me the professional (and even human being) I am today. 2. As for post-baccaleureate credentials, I don't think CHES really provides much REAL evidence of a health education professional's substantive commitment to continuing education. Truly dedicated, "competent" professional health educators find ways to keep current, and their hunger for professional knowledge, their personal pride in being a professional, and their enthusiasm for the profession drives this. For these individuals, there are many ways of keeping current short of CHES -- regularly going to the nearest medical or other library and studying professional journals is one of them, the internet and maintaining a network of professional colleagues (with or without official memberships in AAHE, SOPHE, ASHA, etc) are others. CHES continuing education credits have no true relevance for this type of dedicated health education professional. As for the "other" health education professionals (you know, the ones who opted for health ed as an easy and expedient way to get a bachelors or masters degree, or whose passing grades were mere gifts from their professors) CHES is equally meaningless. These folks will likely continue their previous undergraduate pattern by selecting CHES continuing education credits based on ease and expediency, rather than basing their choices on true continuing education needs to foster meaningful professional growth and competence. In my opinion, a vote in favor of CHES certification is a vote of "no confidence" in the efficacy of our current professional training programs, and furthur belies a scorn for the standards of excellence held by current practitioners in our field. I rest my obviously biased anti-CHES case. Andrea Frank, BS, MS, PhD Cand., NO CHES BS (Community Health Education, University of Wisconsin - La Crosse, 1981) MS (Health Promotion, Purdue University, 1984), ABD (Continuing and Vocational Education, University of Wisconsin - Madison) UW-Madison ------------------------------ #1439 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:05:11 PDT From: Victor Ramirez Subject: ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Hi everybody, there was an ongoing discussion about health education students now-a-days. I would like to contribute my 2 cents, but I committed the mistake of dealiting the last message posted on the topic. If anybody still has it around in their e-mail I would appreciate it if you could send me a copy of it. Likewise there was also a message on an internship in the Virgnia area. If anybody has it around if they could send me a copy of it. Thanks Victor Ramirez _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ #1440 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:57:01 -0600 From: "Walter A. Hanks" Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Andrea Frank, BS, MS, PhD Cand. wrote: >I just got back from a vacation and returned to the prospect of digesting >nearly a week's worth of CHES discussion in one gulp. So here's my two cents >worth: (snipped) >In my opinion, a vote in favor of CHES certification is a vote of "no >confidence" in the efficacy of our current professional training programs, >and furthur belies a scorn for the standards of excellence held by current >practitioners in our field. I rest my obviously biased anti-CHES case. > >Andrea Frank, BS, MS, PhD Cand., NO CHES >BS (Community Health Education, University of Wisconsin - La Crosse, 1981) >MS (Health Promotion, Purdue University, 1984), >ABD (Continuing and Vocational Education, University of Wisconsin - Madison) >UW-Madison > So, let me see if get this right. A graduate of a medical school can not practice medicine until he or she has passed a certification exam. A graduate of a nursing program can not practice until he or she has passed a certification exam. A law school graduate can not practice law until he or she has passed a certification exam. The list could go on and on. Do you mean to say that these requirement indicate a vote of no confidence in *all* of these academic programs? I can think of very few professions where a degree alone will get you accepted as a professional. I really don't understand why it bothers you so much that employers who don't know a new entry-level health educator might want to see evidence that the applicant has met a minimum standard of knowledge for the profession. Walter A. Hanks, BS, C.H.E.S. Graduate Research Assistant Department of Health Sciences Brigham Young University ------------------------------ #1441 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:31:37 -0700 From: Mark Fulop Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Mark Fulop, MA, MPH, CHES Director, Clearinghouse Services ETR Associates 4 Carbonero Way Scotts Valley, CA 95066 831-438-4822, Ext 214 831-438-3618 Fax markf@etr-associates.org >>> "Walter A. Hanks" A graduate of a medical school can not practice medicine until he or she has passed a certification exam. Again, let's not confuse license with certification. Mark ------------------------------ #1442 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:05:53 -0400 From: "Dr.Ashwin.Acharya." Subject: health website. ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEC493.FFC6AE40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Respected Colleague, Please review the following message and if appropriate please share = with colleagues as it may be an invaluable resource to all peers = particularly to colleague doctors, patients and consumers. Thanks. RE : http:// WWW.GLOBALHEALTH2000.COM Mission : Global Health Education and building a health conscious = community for the 21 st century. Membership - FREE=20 I would like to convey the recent launch of internets first health care = portal which offers multispeciality , multilingual peer reviewed health = articles for health professionals,consumers & patients.The site has been = reviewed and subscribes to the HON Code principles of Health on Net = Foundation.=20 Additionally you can perform literature search using = Medline,Aidsline,Healthstar & Cancerlit databases with millions of = citations , abstracts and access to full text articles. Additional Site Features : Complementary email , Daily breaking medical = and other news , Financial Center with ability to create personal = portfolio. This may also be a resourceful place to establish networking with = worlwide physicians, oragnisations and allied personnel in the = healthcare industry. If you have any questions or concerns I stay obligated to address them. Dr. Ashwin Acharya.=20 Boston , US. www.GLOBALHEALTH2000.com ------------------------------ #1443 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:57:01 -0500 From: Barbara Hager Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Yea Walter! I love the discussion! Thanks for fanning the flames! Barb. Hager ------------------------------ #1444 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:18:10 -0400 From: Karen Denard Goldman Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net A good argument for universal professional preparation program accreditation, if ever I heard one, Andy! But since we're not there (and that's an interesting issue, too) I think credentialing is a major contributor to people staying current...and I think that's worth a lot. kdg .At 01:27 PM 7/2/99 -0400, Andy Frank wrote: >** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? >** Email: packer18@flash.net > >I just got back from a vacation and returned to the prospect of digesting >nearly a week's worth of CHES discussion in one gulp. So here's my two cents >worth: > >1. I do not have CHES certification, and I hope NEVER to get one. If I am >"compelled" to get one in order to get a job in this field, I will abandon >this profession, as much as I love it. I find it insulting and inane that a >person with great credentials, colleagial references, work experience, and >degree background in health education would ever be disqualified from a >professional health education job SOLELY because he or she lacks the CHES >credential. If Arkansas is the wave of the future, I cringe for our >profession. > >IMHO, CHES is merely a symptom of the DEVALUATION of college degrees -- in >many fields, but especially in health education. Perhaps it is TOO EASY to >get a degree in health ed compared to nursing, physical therapy, and other >allied health professions. In my undergrad days (ok, so that admittedly was >20 years ago), a few of my fellow health ed majors were people who couldn't >make the grade in other degree programs and defaulted to a degree in health >ed, or they went after an easy "add on" health ed minor. > >What does it mean to get a BACHELOR's degree or even a MASTERS in ANY field >these days, let alone in health education? With all the diploma mills >abounding, often not much. The only point of requiring a 4 year degree >program graduate with abundantly FRESH health education knowledge to sit for >a silly "comprehensive" (?) 3 hour CHES exam is if our profession believes >the granting of a health ed degree is not directly correlated to or >indicative of knowledge competence in the field. If our field is graduating >intellectually competent students from solid health education programs, then >why not grant automatic CHES status to ALL new graduates of accredited health >education programs and simply require continuing education credits later to >maintain CHES status? Instead, the stated need for CHES certification >directly implies that a degree in health ed is simply 4 years of college >course pablum. If that is the case, how can a mere 3 hour CHES exam make up >for this deficiency and bring any sort of distinction to our field? >Ultimately, only health education professors and bachelor's and master's >programs which hold health ed students to high standards can do that. > >What CHES advocates are really intimating is that CHES certification would be >unnecessary if the hoops health ed majors had to jump through were higher and >a degree in health education had more social recognition. From my own >personal experience, it has been my masters degree from PURDUE (a school with >a solid academic reputation) that has clinched jobs for me, not my degrees in >community health education and health promotion. I personally thank >professors like Gerry Hyner, Chris Melby, Harold Veenker at Purdue and >teachers like Bob Jecklin, Peg Dosch, Dick Pappenfus, A.B. Culver, Gary >Gilmore, and Gerry Matheson at UW-La Crosse for raising the bar and making me >the professional (and even human being) I am today. > >2. As for post-baccaleureate credentials, I don't think CHES really >provides much REAL evidence of a health education professional's substantive >commitment to continuing education. Truly dedicated, "competent" >professional health educators find ways to keep current, and their hunger for >professional knowledge, their personal pride in being a professional, and >their enthusiasm for the profession drives this. For these individuals, >there are many ways of keeping current short of CHES -- regularly going to >the nearest medical or other library and studying professional journals is >one of them, the internet and maintaining a network of professional >colleagues (with or without official memberships in AAHE, SOPHE, ASHA, etc) >are others. CHES continuing education credits have no true relevance for >this type of dedicated health education professional. > >As for the "other" health education professionals (you know, the ones who >opted for health ed as an easy and expedient way to get a bachelors or >masters degree, or whose passing grades were mere gifts from their >professors) CHES is equally meaningless. These folks will likely continue >their previous undergraduate pattern by selecting CHES continuing education >credits based on ease and expediency, rather than basing their choices on >true continuing education needs to foster meaningful professional growth and >competence. > >In my opinion, a vote in favor of CHES certification is a vote of "no >confidence" in the efficacy of our current professional training programs, >and furthur belies a scorn for the standards of excellence held by current >practitioners in our field. I rest my obviously biased anti-CHES case. > >Andrea Frank, BS, MS, PhD Cand., NO CHES >BS (Community Health Education, University of Wisconsin - La Crosse, 1981) >MS (Health Promotion, Purdue University, 1984), >ABD (Continuing and Vocational Education, University of Wisconsin - Madison) >UW-Madison > >** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: >** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html >** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu > ******************************************************** Karen Denard Goldman, PhD, CHES Director, Undergraduate Health Education and Promotion Program Lehman College, CUNY, 422-C Gillet Hall, 250 Bedford Park Boulevard West Bronx, NY 10468 Phone: 718-960-8673 email: kgoldman@alpha.lehman.cuny.edu NEW HOME EMAIL as of JULY 1: rlgkdg@flash.net Fax: 718-960-8908 New York State Coalition for Health Education - use above address and numbers to contact the coalition ******************************************************** ------------------------------ #1445 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:20:37 -0400 From: Karen Denard Goldman Subject: Re: health website. ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Anybody know anything about this group? kdg At 02:05 PM 7/2/99 -0400, Dr.Ashwin.Acharya. wrote: > > Respected Colleague, > > Please review the following message and if appropriate please share with > colleagues as it may be an invaluable resource to all peers particularly to > colleague doctors, patients and consumers. Thanks. > > RE : http:// WWW.GLOBALHEALTH2000.COM > > Mission : Global Health Education and building a health conscious community > for the 21 st century. > > Membership - FREE > > I would like to convey the recent launch of internets first health care > portal which offers multispeciality , multilingual peer reviewed health > articles for health professionals,consumers & patients.The site has been > reviewed and subscribes to the HON Code principles of Health on Net > Foundation. > > Additionally you can perform literature search using > Medline,Aidsline,Healthstar & Cancerlit databases with millions of citations , > abstracts and access to full text articles. > > Additional Site Features : Complementary email , Daily breaking medical and > other news , Financial Center with ability to create personal portfolio. > > This may also be a resourceful place to establish networking with worlwide > physicians, oragnisations and allied personnel in the healthcare industry. > > If you have any questions or concerns I stay obligated to address them. > > Dr. Ashwin Acharya. > > Boston , US. > > www.GLOBALHEALTH2000.com ******************************************************** Karen Denard Goldman, PhD, CHES Director, Undergraduate Health Education and Promotion Program Lehman College, CUNY, 422-C Gillet Hall, 250 Bedford Park Boulevard West Bronx, NY 10468 Phone: 718-960-8673 email: kgoldman@alpha.lehman.cuny.edu NEW HOME EMAIL as of JULY 1: rlgkdg@flash.net Fax: 718-960-8908 New York State Coalition for Health Education - use above address and numbers to contact the coalition ******************************************************** ------------------------------ #1446 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:39:24 -0500 From: mary ann lay Subject: Position Available ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Position available in Indiana Prevention Coordinator This position will provide day to day managment of a cooperative agreement. Masters Degree in Health Education or related field. Three to five years experience in alcohol, tobacco and other drug primary prevention. Experience working with coalitions or volunteer organizations. Excellent written and oral communication skills. Ability to travel frequently statewide. Occasional overnight travel. Abilty to work independently. Computer skills using MS Office 97, Windows9 95, electronic mail and Netscape necessary. Must be ablt to obtain credential as prevention professional through the Indiana Association of Prevention Professionals within 90 days of hire. Contract position; rang 40-45,000 per year, plus benefits. Send resume and names of three professional references to: Sally Fleck Indiana Family and Social Services Administration Division of Mental Health 402 W. Washington St, W 353 Indianapolis, IN 46204 AA-EOE ------------------------------ #1447 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:25:11 -0600 From: "Walter A. Hanks" Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net At 11:31 AM -0700 7/2/99, Mark Fulop wrote: >** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? >** Email: packer18@flash.net > >Mark Fulop, MA, MPH, CHES >Director, Clearinghouse Services >ETR Associates >4 Carbonero Way >Scotts Valley, CA 95066 > >831-438-4822, Ext 214 >831-438-3618 Fax >markf@etr-associates.org > >>>> "Walter A. Hanks" >A graduate of a medical school can not practice medicine until he or she >has passed a certification exam. > >Again, let's not confuse license with certification. Mark > Yes, let's not. In many professions, the individual state license is tied to the certification exam, but they are separate things. For example, you can pass the state bar exam and not be given a license to practice law in a state. In the field of Audiology (my wife's profession), you can pass the national certification exam without receiving a license to practice. Similarly, you can pass the boards for a medical specialty and not be given a license to practice medicine in a state. In all cases cited, getting the license requires a background check and verification of the educational credential presented by the candidate. My comments were regarding the certification exam only, not the license. My point remains that requiring a certification exam for practice is a time-honored tradition in many professions. And, doing so is not a statement of distrust for the academic preparation. Walter A. Hanks, BS, C.H.E.S. Graduate Research Assistant Department of Health Sciences Brigham Young University ------------------------------ #1448 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:09:45 -0700 From: Mark Fulop Subject: Job Announcment ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Okay folks, I know I have exceeded my email limits for the week but hopefully I can slip this one in: Database Specialist ETR Associates, a non-profit agency in Scotts Valley (next to Santa Cruz), California, seeks a qualified person to work as a Database Specialist. The position is part of the Tobacco Education Clearinghouse of California (TECC), a Statewide support to the California Prop 99 tobacco use prevention program. Duties include developing and maintaining complex relational databases using Filemaker Pro and Microsoft Access and providing technical assistance to staff. Required: B.A., proficiency in database design and management. Web experience a plus. Salary $38,000-41,000. Job announcements available by contacting me at markf@etr-associates.org. Send resume and cover letter by July 16, 1999 to T. Sanders, Human Resources Dept., ETR Associates. PO Box 1830, Santa Cruz CA 95061 or email a text only resume to: sant@etr.org. ETR is an Equal Opportunity Employer. M/F/V/D. Mark Mark Fulop, MA, MPH, CHES Director, Clearinghouse Services ETR Associates 4 Carbonero Way Scotts Valley, CA 95066 831-438-4822, Ext 214 831-438-3618 Fax markf@etr-associates.org ------------------------------ #1449 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:49:40 -0700 From: Andrew P Jenkins Subject: Friday Inspiration ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net --------------9E1A87D4A466DF0152467FFF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Friends and Fellows, This weekend is the Fourth of July! The one day out of the year when we Americans celebrate ourselves, our ideals, our freedom! Sadly, in many circles, particularly academic ones, it has become in-vogue to criticize America and all she stands for. Some folks equate cynicism with intellectualism. To be a fan of American history is to show oneĦs illiteracy, naivete, and lack of enlightenment. To wave the flag is to advertise your ignorance. The anti-patriot cynics remind me of the rude houseguest who eats your dinner, sleeps in your bed, and then complains that your sauce was "just no so" and your mattress was far too stiff for his liking. To my cynical colleagues I can only say, "TRAVEL!" ****************************************************************** That said, I will tell you of a hot afternoon spent in Central America nigh 20 years ago. On a blistering hot evening my 3rd class bus was stopped at a state border crossing. Two heavily armed men climbed aboard and began walking the isles poking peopleĦs bags, yelling questions in old ladiesĦ faces, and generally acting like lethal versions of the playground bully. Chivalry and testosterone momentarily overcame me and I started to stand up to say "something" to do "something." Fortunately, I was seized by the brown hand of a stranger who pulled me back to my seat and then indicated in pantomime that I join the others by meekly staring at the floor. I followed suit but one drunken federal officer had seen my challenge and made a beeline for my blue eyes. He pressed his beer-belly against my face and rested his M-16 on my arm and loudly demanded identification from me. I fumbled and bumbled and blathered in my worst fourth grade Spanish. He called me all sorts of names and poked me in the chest, ear and eye and just I smiled and nodded and pretended not to understand. His pals laughed at the stupid Yankee and he, feeling satisfied in himself, spared my hide. When their bogus "drug inspection" was completed and some poor, barefooted laborer was pulled from the back row and roughed up sufficiently in full view, our bus was allowed to leave the checkpoint. After a mile or so I asked my native savior "Why do they do that? WhatĦs the purpose?" He simply stared at the floor and said curtly, "Because they can, #$%* Gringo, because they can!" I still find it disturbing that I couldnĦt tell if his contempt was greater for them or for me. ************************************************************************ I hope that between the relatives, barbecues, and beverages we all take a moment to reflect on the freedoms we have. This list, for instance, and the media that drives it and the rights to use it are not globally universal. Have a safe and Happy Fourth! Andy J :{) -- *********************************************************************** "Of course risk-taking is marked by failure˘otherwise itĦd be called "sure-thing-taking"! Andrew P Jenkins, Ph.D. CHES Health Education Programs Central Washington University Ellensburg, WA 98926 509-963-1041 Website http://www.cwu.edu/~jenkinsa/ ------------------------------ #1450 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:56:33 EDT From: Andy Frank Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire - reply to kdg ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net In a message dated 7/2/99 8:17:47 PM, kgoldman@ALPHA.LEHMAN.CUNY.EDU writes: >A good argument for universal professional preparation program >accreditation, if ever I heard one, Andy! But since we're not there (and >that's an interesting issue, too) I think credentialing is a major >contributor to people staying current...and I think that's worth a lot. If CHES credentialing is a (implied - the?) major contributor to people staying current, I fear that doesn't speak very highly about the self-directed learning motivation and professional drive among current practitioners in our field. Maybe there are some contemporary health education historians around (or those with living memories of the 70's and 80's) who can reconfirm this -- but my own personal recollection is that the health education role delineation model published in the 80's was specifically and solely put forth to enhance the quality and on-going standardization of baccalaureate-based professional preparation programs for health educators. Later, the role delineation work was extrapolated (or was it co-opted?) from its original purposes by CHES advocates in order to promote CHES certification. I heard about the role delineation work and had a hard paperback copy of that in my possession LONG before I ever heard about CHES. Yes, we may have a "way to go" in our professional preparation programs, but unless the role delineation group was some sort of cabal with secret role delineation/CHES bait and switch intentions, I believe it is safe to say that substantive attempts to raise and standardize the educational bar for health educators far predate any substantive health education certification work. Am I wrong? Andrea Frank, BS, MS, ABD, CHES-LESS ------------------------------ #1451 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:59:50 -0500 From: Michael Pejsach Subject: ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3013790390_549944_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Being one who supports CHES, without exception, I am here to put my money where my mouth is: FREE 3-Hour Online CHES PREPARATION Course First one-hour session will be offered four weeks before the next CHES exam. A total of three one-hour discussion "classes" will be offered. Free office hours with the instructors. If you have a computer and an ISP, you probably can take this course from wherever you want. During the month of September, a colleague of mine and I will offer a free three-hour program, via the internet, complete with final exam (a CHES Sample Test), on the essential stuff on the CHES exam, as well as "how and what to study" information. We've had several requests for such a course, in the past, and offered it, via APHELA (http://healthbehavior.com/APHELA.html) at East Jefferson General Hospital, Metairie, LA, and at Tulane's School of Public Health (although I don't believe the department supports the CHES). We had over 50 participants and a 100% success rate - everyone passed. This was at a time when many professionals could sit for the test without having the requirements needed today - many were not health education prepared. I believe APHELA charged $25 for the three hour course at that time (1991 and 1994?). So....here's your chance to take an online course and pay ZERO in fees. You'll be able to look at and listen to each other and the instructor. This will be limited to 25 participants. You do not have to pass the exit exam...it's only a practice exam and should help you. Please e-mail me if interested. If you want to know how it's done, you can look at our page that describes the CHES CECH Event "PRECEDE/PROCEED" at http://healthbehavior.com/PRECEDEPROCEED.html. Same kind of procedures and computer requirements. Please look at this page before you e-mail me. Any innovators out there? (I'm guessing that it'll take a while before we get a middle majority using this approach. In the mid 80's I did a survey of over 300 health educators and asked if they would use a telecommunication method for messaging..."would you use e-mail?" I believe that about 75% responded that would not, and some added, "why would I need to do that?" I also had some other not so nice and odd remarks about e-mail. Yes, the same kind of e-mail you're using today was available in the mid 80's!) Michael Pejsach, Ed.D., CHES Life&Health Enhancement Services http://healthbehavior.com PS All CHES CECHs for on-line courses and cruises, will be offered through APHELA (http://healthbehavior.com/APHELA.html) ------------------------------ #1452 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:09:13 EDT From: Andy Frank Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net In a message dated 7/2/99 7:11:45 PM, Walt_Hanks@BYU.EDU writes: >So, let me see if get this right. >A graduate of a medical school can not practice medicine until he or she >has passed a certification exam. >A graduate of a nursing program can not practice until he or she has passed >a certification exam. >A law school graduate can not practice law until he or she has passed a >certification exam. >The list could go on and on. >Do you mean to say that these requirement indicate a vote of no confidence >in *all* of these academic programs? Frankly, most professional societies associated with professions like these are notorious for refusing to revoke the licenses of incompetent professionals within their ranks, and continue to let them practice law or medicine or whatever no matter how incompetent they are. Once they pass the exam, come hell or high water, they're in the profession for life. Is this the type of "professional" behavior we want health education to mimic? Beyond this, the simple fact is that health educators aren't doctors, nurses, or lawyers -- we don't holding beating hearts in our hands, deliver babies, or give potentially lethal injections. We aren't responsible for seeing that dangerous people get put away in jail or that innocent people are kept out of jail. Heck, we aren't even like CPA's who are responsible for preparing coherent tax returns and keeping the the IRS at bay. We are purely health educators. We have a responsibility to society and the people we engage in teaching and learning transactions. We do important things for sure -- but we can't and shouldn't make apple and orange comparisons between our profession and others. I do understand and have personally encountered the difficulties of competing with nurses, et al for health education jobs when one has a bachelors degree in health ed but nothing more, so I can understand the frustration and how someone solely with a bachelors in health ed might disagree with me. The SOLE reason I went on for a masters in health promotion when I did was because in the extremely tight economy of the early 80's, my bachelor's degree (even with a 4.0 average) couldn't compete with baccaleureate RNs. Despite this, I believe professional puffery of the CHES variety is more a sign of our profession's inferiority complex than anything else. Walt_Hanks@BYU.EDU further writes: >I can think of very few professions where a degree alone will get you >accepted as a professional. I have no idea how many professions at the entry level require something more than a degree. However, I can think of one extremely well paying profession in particular where one can be accepted and even WELL-ACCEPTED without ANY degree in the field. COMPUTERS. Even with a bad attitude and crummy work history, my computer wizard brother-in-law got a bachelors degree in German History and was snapped up instantly for an entry level computer programming job paying almost $40k. My husband also has 3 years of college but no degrees -- yet he's a computer guru and currently works in that area for a school district (and believe me, K-12 school systems are hung up on degrees). He is primarily and brilliantly self taught in the computer field, and keeps on top of things through various trade journals, computer user groups, networking with colleagues, and experiential learning. (If only I had greater facility with computers, I too could use my BS, MS, and ABD in non-computer fields as a stepping stone to a great paying job!) Few people can contest that computer people do incredibly important work -- and that the work of a computer incompetent can have EXTREME, even life-threatening consequences. Take the Y2K problem for example -- which -- by the way, will be "solved" in large part by computer people whose computer expertise pre-dates the granting of degrees in computer science, and who have NO certifications in the "extinct" or archaic computer languages they need to know to correct many of the Y2K problems. In addition, while there are contemporary certifications in various computer specialty areas (e.g. Novell Network systems, Mac technicians, etc), there is no general certifying exam for this field. How could there be -- it is too diverse! And so are we as health educators! So what's the difference between us and computer professionals? Computer experts -- with and without degrees or credentials -- have a socially marketable skill and provide a recognizable, concrete service to society. As health educators, we too provide service to society, but "prevention" and education will always be a much less visible and intangible endeavor than the work most other professionals do. That's why health education must rely on raising the degree-granting educational bar rather than trying to compete head to head with other professions by creating esoteric, meaningless certification programs of our own. CHES -- yet another cryptic initial to explain to prospective employers. I'd much rather promote and defend a BS, MS, and even ABD! Walt_Hanks@BYU.EDU further writes: >I really don't understand why it bothers you >so much that employers who don't know a new entry-level health educator >might want to see evidence that the applicant has met a minimum standard >of knowledge for the profession. It bothers me for all the reasons I previously cited, and for a few more. If an employer is unfamiliar with the knowledge bar involved in earning a health education degree, a CHES add-on certification will be meaningless as well. If an employer IS familiar with the height of the bar raised by health ed degree programs but places no confidence in that degree-granting standard, again the addition of CHES on top of a BA or BS is virtually meaningless. CHES also bothers me because I have absolutely no faith in the fundamental reliability and validity of the CHES exam. Bar exams and the certifying exams for doctors and veterinarians are in the very least ALL day affairs, and frequently multi-day , multi-exam affairs. Unlike CHES, one without a respectable advanced degree in these fields could ever hope to pass such a test. CHES-LESSLY yours, I remain, Andrea Frank, BS, MS, ABD ------------------------------ #1453 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:57:33 -0400 From: Bill Livingood Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Andy: Why do you think our professional preparation programs deserve our confidence? We don't have the same type of universal review processes that are common with other professions. How do you know each prof prep program is even a little bit legitimate? Why do othe professions have both individual and academic credentialing processes? What makes health education so unique that it dosn't need the same type of quality assurance afforded by other professions? Can health education practitioners position themselves in society without the common societal mechanisms that other professions use to position their practitioners? Bill Livingood -----Original Message----- From: Walter A. Hanks To: HEDIR-L@SIU.EDU Sent: 7/2/99 1:57 PM Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Andrea Frank, BS, MS, PhD Cand. wrote: >I just got back from a vacation and returned to the prospect of digesting >nearly a week's worth of CHES discussion in one gulp. So here's my two cents >worth: (snipped) >In my opinion, a vote in favor of CHES certification is a vote of "no >confidence" in the efficacy of our current professional training programs, >and furthur belies a scorn for the standards of excellence held by current >practitioners in our field. I rest my obviously biased anti-CHES case. > >Andrea Frank, BS, MS, PhD Cand., NO CHES >BS (Community Health Education, University of Wisconsin - La Crosse, 1981) >MS (Health Promotion, Purdue University, 1984), >ABD (Continuing and Vocational Education, University of Wisconsin - Madison) >UW-Madison > So, let me see if get this right. A graduate of a medical school can not practice medicine until he or she has passed a certification exam. A graduate of a nursing program can not practice until he or she has passed a certification exam. A law school graduate can not practice law until he or she has passed a certification exam. The list could go on and on. Do you mean to say that these requirement indicate a vote of no confidence in *all* of these academic programs? I can think of very few professions where a degree alone will get you accepted as a professional. I really don't understand why it bothers you so much that employers who don't know a new entry-level health educator might want to see evidence that the applicant has met a minimum standard of knowledge for the profession. Walter A. Hanks, BS, C.H.E.S. Graduate Research Assistant Department of Health Sciences Brigham Young University ** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: ** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html ** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu ------------------------------ #1454 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 09:11:16 -0400 From: Bill Livingood Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire - reply to kdg ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Andy: If you examine the historical documents you will find that role delineation was vey much about establishing a foundation for individual credentialing. Bill Livingood -----Original Message----- From: Andy Frank To: HEDIR-L@SIU.EDU Sent: 7/2/99 7:56 PM Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire - reply to kdg ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net In a message dated 7/2/99 8:17:47 PM, kgoldman@ALPHA.LEHMAN.CUNY.EDU writes: >A good argument for universal professional preparation program >accreditation, if ever I heard one, Andy! But since we're not there (and >that's an interesting issue, too) I think credentialing is a major >contributor to people staying current...and I think that's worth a lot. If CHES credentialing is a (implied - the?) major contributor to people staying current, I fear that doesn't speak very highly about the self-directed learning motivation and professional drive among current practitioners in our field. Maybe there are some contemporary health education historians around (or those with living memories of the 70's and 80's) who can reconfirm this -- but my own personal recollection is that the health education role delineation model published in the 80's was specifically and solely put forth to enhance the quality and on-going standardization of baccalaureate-based professional preparation programs for health educators. Later, the role delineation work was extrapolated (or was it co-opted?) from its original purposes by CHES advocates in order to promote CHES certification. I heard about the role delineation work and had a hard paperback copy of that in my possession LONG before I ever heard about CHES. Yes, we may have a "way to go" in our professional preparation programs, but unless the role delineation group was some sort of cabal with secret role delineation/CHES bait and switch intentions, I believe it is safe to say that substantive attempts to raise and standardize the educational bar for health educators far predate any substantive health education certification work. Am I wrong? Andrea Frank, BS, MS, ABD, CHES-LESS ** Support the HEDIR, do your internet shopping via HEEF: ** http://www.healthbehavior.com/vendors.html ** The New Issue of IEJHE is here: http://www.iejhe.siu.edu ------------------------------ #1455 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 07:23:41 -0600 From: "Walter A. Hanks" Subject: Re: CHES - more fuel for the fire ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Let's not get so lost in a semantic debate that we lose the point of this thread. Whether you call the exam a certification exam or a licensing exam, the reality is that many professions require that those seeking entry into the field subject themselves to an examination process. They do so because they recognize the need for an independent and objective measure of an individuals level of preparation. Andy seems to feel that this process somehow deminishes the value of academic preparation. I disagree. In fact, I think the opposite is true. When I prepared for the CHES exam, it forced me to revisit the learning that had taken place over the course of my undergraduate academic preparation. I found the process to be a good integration exercise that allowed me to place meaning on what had been seemingly unimportant trivia. Furthermore, because I wish to retain my certification, I am now required to continue adding to my educational foundation. In my book, those are valuable outcomes of the certification process. So, I remain supportive of CHES, and I will go so far as to say that I look forward to the development of a graduate CHES exam. If those who employ health educators share my view of the value of CHES, then so much the better. If not, that is their loss. I value the certification for what it means to me. Walter A. Hanks, BS, C.H.E.S. (and proud of it!) ------------------------------ #1456 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 07:03:06 -0700 From: j c Subject: CHESvsPreparation ** Want Internet and e-mail service for $14.16/month? ** Email: packer18@flash.net Hello again, Andy seems to have a point. What university would send out a health professional with a degree to represent their program who could not pass the CHES exam? If any would, then it doesn't speak well for the degree obtained. (What does a degree mean?) I have no doubt most could pass and it just seems to add more hassel and expense to finally getting to the job. Judy J. ________________________________________