#664
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 05:36:26 -0500
From: "teufel@siu.edu" <teufel@SIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Dove campaign "onslaught" for young girls
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I enjoy that you enjoyed my silly emotional appeal connecting the Dove Campaign and Hitler. I liked the humorous end of your reply regarding your pulchritude program... very funny.
I agree that social justice is a lofty goal for health promotion. As another component of the social justice paradigm, the social determinants of health literature shows these determinants do a much better job at predicting health outcomes than the CDC six. The CDC six were in large part an extension of the LaLonde Report. However, United States laws passed regarding this report were highly focused on individuals and lifestyles, not surprising given the individualist culture in the U.S. However, at the time of this report, legislation could have also been justified that would have altered social determinants of health (environmental factors), but it was not. More recent reports. mostly out of Canada and Europe,
show that environmental factors are better predictors of health than lifestyle factors.
My belief is that, and maybe I have drank too much of the social justice Kool-Aid, the variables that are typically viewed as control variables (e.g., SES) need to be moved to the forefront of health promotion; while the more typical variables of health promotion such as intent to change behavior should be deflated in their importance. I know that social change is more difficult compared to individual change. There is certainly not funding available from typical funding sources for broad social change. There is, however, funding available for community change, and this is where I am currently focusing my attention-- changing social determinants of health at the community level.
I believe that one of the great characteristics of health promotion is its fluidity and flexibility. When I first went to graduate school, I took part in a psychological judgment and decision making program in which we mathematically modeled human choices among alternative. It was interesting, but there were only about 20 people who believed so, and the arguments in the field were very limited. However, in health promotion, people can pursue many different avenues. The key to health promotion is to establishing eclectic collaborative working groups that include members of academia and the community as a whole. My expertise is in the areas of proposal coordination, grant writing, research, and evaluation, but I have very well defined limitations as well for which I need the help of collaborators. Through collaborative efforts social determinants of health and social justice can be changed at the community level. Working with communities has been a rewarding experience. As related to the Mark Twain quote of "I never let my schooling get in the way of my education," communities have shown me ways to affect change that I
never heard of in the academe, including the development of sustainable programs.
This has been great dialogue. I enjoy the HEDIR for this type of discourse.
James
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#665
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 07:33:11 -0400
From: Lisa Lieberman <llhealth@OPTONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Dove campaign "onslaught" for young girls
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Wow- and to think that all I said was "the video is powerful". If one 30 second video can generate this kind of discussion among us, just think what it might do for little girls.
But in thinking more deeply about the larger message- I agree that "self-esteem" is not what this campaign is or should be about. I'd add to the self-esteem examples, the point that high school boys who are having sex generally have higher self-esteem than those who are not. Chicken or egg?
Or does it even matter? I don't know- but there isn't a pregnancy or HIV prevention program around that can operate in a school without throwing in the word self-esteem somewhere. I guess it does belong in the mom and apple pie category. Philosophy aside, I still think that, if you exclude the word self-esteem at the end, and you forget that it was from the makers of Dove (even though I do like their soap), the video itself has a powerful message about what our little girls are seeing and integrating into their personal and world view of beauty.
It reminds me of a conversation I had with my daughter about a leather mini-skirt and jacket that she saw on a rack in the little girls department of a high end department store and wanted to try on. I told her that I wouldn't buy it because it wasn't something that a 5 year old should wear.
And she said "but then, why do they make it in my size?" Good question.
Lisa
Lisa Lieberman, Ph.D., CHES
Healthy Concepts Research, Inc.
29 Ardsley Drive
New City, NY 10956
845 638-1619
-----Original Message-----
From: HEDIR-L List [mailto:HEDIR-L@listserv.siu.edu] On Behalf Of rick petosa
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 12:10 AM
To: HEDIR-L@listserv.siu.edu
Subject: Fwd: Re: Dove campaign "onslaught" for young girls
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James,
Enjoyed reading your response, there is great humor in it. Constructing a sentence in which the words "Dove Campaign" and "Hitler" both appear is a Herculean feat of creativity.
From this day hence, Dove soap may have trouble floating. I sincerely agree that self-esteem is a serious distraction and source of miscommunication between behavioral scientists, educators and the public. Yet the phrase has serious marketing appeal to parents of young children.
Mom, apple pie, and social justice are indeed wonderful things, but...
I would argue that Health Education/Promotion, to use your words, "does not predict" social justice well.
This observation is drawn from the health promotion research literature. Ergo......take it from here James.....
I wonder: if a community was in need of "social justice" would they call health promotion folks? I would not.
That would be like a state senators delivering wealth to the people. They can say it, they can sincerely want it, but they cannot do it.
Just a few decades ago, a health education faculty (of which I was a member) were engaged in a discussion over the best name for the academic unit. The discussion belabored the universe of great things health educators aspire to.
We decided to call ourselves, "The Department of All Good Things." We thought it captured what we did, but also had a timeless quality.
The University would not have it. Perhaps with the passing of time, Universities and the public are ready to appreciate all we potentially do.
If you will excuse, I must attend to my personal pulchritude program.
r. petosa
>I am pleased to find that my reply impelled dialogue. In response to
>the question regarding the sole importance of health outcomes, my
>current beliefs regarding the end goal of health promotion relate to
>social justice. Madison Powers and Ruth Faden have presented six
>dimensions of social justice that I think are a
good
>summary of social justice: health, personal security, reasoning,
>respect, attachment, and self-determination. I believe that health is
>not the sole outcome of health promotion. However, the fact still
>remains that self-esteem does not predict health well, and I do not
>believe that it predicts any of these other factors well either. The
>problem with self-esteem is that the construct that has insufficient
>validity and reliability, especially when one considers implicit as
>opposed to explicit measures of self-esteem and if one controls for
>variables such as intelligence and SES. Women and men, this is not a
>gender determined problem, have issues with self-image.
>Women and men are both objectified in the media. This objectification
>is both an influence on and a reflection of people’s
>values. As a contemporary stereotypical
>but concise example, female models are objectified and male athletes
>are objectified. Men and women are both body conscious but in
>different ways and with potentially varying magnitudes. There are
>certainly cultural factors that influence self-image. As Erich Fromm
>pointed out decades ago, Americans are a having culture and not a being
>culture. We want to have this or that (i.e., esteem through an
>expanded version of vanity) and not simply be. In fact, studies have
>shown that women want a body that is actually slimmer than the men
>would prefer for women.
>I speculate that the catchall of self-esteem is simply a distal symptom
>of the underdevelopment in other dimensions of social justice (e.g.,
>security, respect, reasoning, attachment, and self-determination). I
>also want to clarify that I do not want to take a solipsistic position.
>Strictly focusing on self-determination of one’s own mind is a naïve
>assumption. The development of self-esteem without developing the
>other dimensions of social justice would create a truly individualistic
>view of the self and where the self fits into an environment. The
>classic example is that some sociopaths have great self-esteem.
>
>Regarding the Dove campaign specifically, I will support my belief with
>evidence in order to allay mystification. I will refer to the website
>since it is publicly accessible.
>The Dove models are almost all white women who are I would guess
>between a size
>6 and 10, and I do not see any women with obvious physical
>disabilities. I also do not see any women who are severely overweight.
>I also see an under-representation women over 50.
>See http://campaignforrealbeauty.co.uk/nominate.asp?
>src=Home_POD2_billboardCamp
>The playing with beauty game depicts smaller sized young women.
>http://campaignforrealbeauty.co.uk/playingwithbeauty.asp
>The global survey limited its sample to women age 15 to 64.
>http://campaignforrealbeauty.co.uk/whitepaper.asp
>The girls only self-esteem zone depicts primarily thin white healthy
looking
>females.
>http://campaignforrealbeauty.co.uk/dsef07/t5.aspx?id=8132
>
>I am still unconvinced that Dove has justified an argument for altering
>the definition of beauty or discovering real beauty.
>
>I also disagree with the overall position of the campaign regarding
>real women and real beauty. Are women who are not approved by Dove
>unreal as people or in their beauty? I will not bash one group of
>women (I am guessing the models are supposed to be unreal women) to
>make another feel better. I do not have a positive appreciation of
>this worldview or human tendency.
>Furthermore, there are certainly vain men as
>well as women. The problem is vanity
>and it is not resolved by implying that it is okay for men to be gray
>haired obese men. To say that being overweight, older, and with acne
>is considered a norm of male attractiveness is certainly a fallacy.
>There are standards for male physical attractiveness as well. Other
>attributes for males and females certainly also matter above and beyond
>physical attractiveness. Dove seems to position that self-esteem is
>the attribute to be highlighted. I question this position.
>
>I am sure that some women applaud the Dove Campaign, but men and women
>also applauded Hitler. People have the right to express their
>opinions, but they also have the responsibility to justify their
>opinions. Rights without responsibilities are like unfunded mandates.
>Anecdotal evidence supporting a program,
especially
>considering the zeitgeist to avoid contrarian opinions, does not make a
>program sound in theory of program or change. What is the
>justification for liking this program, outside of projected egotism?
>
>James
>
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R. Lingyak Petosa, Ph.D.
Health and Physical Activity Behavior
School of PAES
A42 PAES Building
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The Ohio State University
Columbus, Ohio 43210
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#666
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 08:03:20 -0500
From: James Teufel <teufel@SIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dove campaign "onslaught" for young girls
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I agree with the idea of questioning values. However, in questioning values, we should attempt to transcend superficial evaluations of how one dresses or decorates one's body. What does it mean if someone dresses in a certain way or if a company is selling certain products to females? I do not believe our society would be better off if people were mandated to cover themselves in the same type of clothing from head to toe. Americans fear sex and sexuality. I believe it is this fear that causes problems. People conflate sexuality and appearance. If someone looks or acts in a certain ways, we make judgments about their sexuality not only their appearance. We do not describe one's dress, we evaluate personhood based on dress, which is likely an unfair extrapolation. I do agree, however, that becoming sexualized at too young of an age in contemporary society is troublesome because the mind of a child is different than that of an adolescent and the mind of an adult is different than that of an adolescent. I have talked to some feminists who believe that females should not dress or behave in certain ways, and other feminists, typically newer generation, who believe in women's rights of self-determination. With children and adolescents of course, this is a more difficult issue because they are minors for whom parent typically guide decisions. The same logic could be extended, however, to minors. There will be some parents who believe their daughters should dress in more liberal ways and others in more conservative ways.
James
-----Original Message-----
From: HEDIR-L List [mailto:HEDIR-L@listserv.siu.edu] On Behalf Of Lisa Lieberman
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:12 PM
To: HEDIR-L@listserv.siu.edu
Subject: Re: Dove campaign "onslaught" for young girls
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If you forget about the source as a company selling their own products, the video itself is a POWERFUL statement about what we are selling young girls, whether it's about beauty, sexuality, or self-esteem.
Lisa Lieberman
-----Original Message-----
From: HEDIR-L List [mailto:HEDIR-L@listserv.siu.edu] On Behalf Of James Teufel
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:49 PM
To: HEDIR-L@listserv.siu.edu
Subject: Re: Dove campaign "onslaught" for young girls
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I believe my opinion regarding the Dove Self-Esteem Campaign may run counter to the accepted zeitgeist. I truly believe that the Dove Campaign is a confused and confusing initiative. Though most people think of beauty as pulchritude, Dove claims to be attempting to counter this definition.
However, after reviewing their website and materials, they do little more than further establish the typical norms of pulchritude. I am not against people developing a sense of self-worth; in the end, this task may be the most difficult task of human kind. However, saying that they are redefining beauty when they are really not is problematic. If they are trying to build self-esteem that is fine, but they are not really redefining beauty. In even writing building self-esteem is fine, I truly have a caveat to that statement. Self-esteem is a notoriously poor predictor of psychological and physical outcomes. If we want people to feel better about themselves, both male and female, we must improve the equity in society on other more important predictors such as relative income, education, employment opportunities, perceptions of equality, etc.
James
-----Original Message-----
From: HEDIR-L List [mailto:HEDIR-L@listserv.siu.edu] On Behalf Of Mary Gothard
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:52 PM
To: HEDIR-L@listserv.siu.edu
Subject: Dove campaign "onslaught" for young girls
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HEDIR colleagues
Dove keeps coming up with interesting and creative media approaches on the messages sent to young girls. Here's the latest targeted towards parents of young girls . . .
http://campaignforrealbeauty.co.uk/
* * * * * * * * *
NOTICE: This E-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information. Use and further disclosure of the information by the recipient must be consistent with applicable laws, regulations and agreements. If you received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender; delete the E-mail; and do not use, disclose or store the information it contains.
Mary Gothard, CHES
Health Education Specialist
Bureau of Community Health Promotion
Wisconsin Division of Public Health
One West Wilson Street, Rm. 218
P.O. Box 2659
Madison, WI 53701-2659
(608) 266-9823 / phone
(608) 267-3824 / fax
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#667
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:11:38 -0700
From: Kris Jankovitz <kjankovi@CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: Recommend a Text
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Hi all,
I just learned that I will be assigned to teach a graduate level course on Current Health Issues this coming January.
I am asking for suggestions or recommendations for a textbook(s) or other readings appropriate for this level. Also if anyone has a syllabus they are willing to share it would be much appreciated.
Best,
Kris
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Kris Jankovitz, Ph.D., CHES
Associate Professor - Health Education
Coordinator, Kinesiology Graduate Program California Polytechnic State University Kinesiology Department San Luis Obispo, CA 93407-0386
(805) 756-2534
(805) 756-7273 (FAX)
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#668
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 14:53:45 -0400
From: Michaela Conley <michaela@HPCAREER.NET>
Subject: Paid Ad: Friday Career News Weekly 100507
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For complete details visit: www.hedir.org
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Health Coach in Baltimore, MD
Johns Hopkins Healthcare
Health Fitness Specialist in Boston, MA (metro) ProFitness Health Solutions
Health Fitness Specialist in Des Moines, IA MediFit Corporate Services
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Asst/Assoc Professor/Scientist in Kansas City, KS The University of Kansas
Date & Outcomes Manager in Western, NC & Knoxville, TN HealthFitness Corp.
Health Promotion Coordinator in
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Asst. Program Manager in Upper Merion (King of Prussia), PA MediFit Corporate Services
Health Fitness Specialist in Redondo Beach, CA MediFit Corporate Services
Program Manager in Redondo Beach, CA
MediFit Corporate Services
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#669
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:23:32 -0400
From: Michaela Conley <michaela@HPCAREER.NET>
Subject: Paid Ad: Asst/Assoc. Professor =?windows-1252?Q?=96?= Health S cience /Nutrition @ Ithaca College
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*Appointment: * Full-time, tenure-eligible Assistant/Associate Professor position to begin Jan. 16^th 2008, or Aug. 16^th 2008 depending on candidate availability and departmental need.
*Description*: Teach undergraduate and graduate courses in nutrition
and health science. Responsibilities may include, but are not limited
to, teaching classes in Human Nutrition, International Health, Research
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establishment of a research agenda, student advisement, and service on
department, school, and college committees.
*Qualifications:* Doctoral degree in Public Health, Human Nutrition, or
Education with a strong background in nutrition or closely related field
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*The Community:* Ithaca is situated in upstate New York in the center
of the Finger Lakes region. It is a city of 29,000 which abounds with
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#670
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 22:53:40 -0400
From: "Carrie L. Gaut" <cgaut4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Dove campaign "onslaught" for young girls
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I, too, agree that the core issue is not self-esteem, but communication. When we as parents fail to answer the questions and initiate conversation, then media and peers step in to fill in the gaps! If we step back from the fact that this is an advertisement for Dove products, then we must consider that they are making a valid point.
Carrie
Carrie Gaut, M.S.
Tate High School
Florida
---- Lisa Lieberman <llhealth@OPTONLINE.NET> wrote:
> ** The HEDIR is Supported by Paid Advertising
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>
> Wow- and to think that all I said was "the video is powerful". If one 30
> second video can generate this kind of discussion among us, just think what
> it might do for little girls.
>
> But in thinking more deeply about the larger message- I agree that
> "self-esteem" is not what this campaign is or should be about. I'd add to
> the self-esteem examples, the point that high school boys who are having sex
> generally have higher self-esteem than those who are not. Chicken or egg?
> Or does it even matter? I don't know- but there isn't a pregnancy or HIV
> prevention program around that can operate in a school without throwing in
> the word self-esteem somewhere. I guess it does belong in the mom and apple
> pie category. Philosophy aside, I still think that, if you exclude the word
> self-esteem at the end, and you forget that it was from the makers of Dove
> (even though I do like their soap), the video itself has a powerful message
> about what our little girls are seeing and integrating into their personal
> and world view of beauty.
>
> It reminds me of a conversation I had with my daughter about a leather
> mini-skirt and jacket that she saw on a rack in the little girls department
> of a high end department store and wanted to try on. I told her that I
> wouldn't buy it because it wasn't something that a 5 year old should wear.
> And she said "but then, why do they make it in my size?" Good question.
> Lisa
>
>
> Lisa Lieberman, Ph.D., CHES
> Healthy Concepts Research, Inc.
> 29 Ardsley Drive
> New City, NY 10956
> 845 638-1619
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HEDIR-L List [mailto:HEDIR-L@listserv.siu.edu] On Behalf Of rick
> petosa
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 12:10 AM
> To: HEDIR-L@listserv.siu.edu
> Subject: Fwd: Re: Dove campaign "onslaught" for young girls
>
> ** The HEDIR is Supported by Paid Advertising
> ** www.hedir.org to Learn More
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>
> James,
> Enjoyed reading your response, there is
> great humor in it. Constructing a sentence in
> which the words "Dove Campaign" and "Hitler" both
> appear is a Herculean feat of creativity.
> From this day hence, Dove soap may have trouble
> floating. I sincerely agree that self-esteem is a
> serious distraction and source of miscommunication between behavioral
> scientists, educators and the public. Yet the
> phrase has serious marketing appeal to parents of young children.
>
> Mom, apple pie, and social justice are indeed wonderful things, but...
>
> I would argue that Health Education/Promotion, to
> use your words, "does not predict" social justice well.
> This observation is drawn from the health
> promotion research literature. Ergo......take it from here James.....
>
> I wonder: if a community was in need of "social
> justice" would they call health promotion folks? I would not.
> That would be like a state senators delivering
> wealth to the people. They can say it, they can
> sincerely want it, but they cannot do it.
>
> Just a few decades ago, a health education
> faculty (of which I was a member) were engaged in a discussion over the best
> name for the academic unit. The discussion
> belabored the universe of great things health educators aspire to.
> We decided to call ourselves, "The Department of
> All Good Things." We thought it captured what we
> did, but also had a timeless quality.
> The University would not have it. Perhaps with
> the passing of time, Universities and the public
> are ready to appreciate all we potentially do.
>
> If you will excuse, I must attend to my personal pulchritude program.
>
> r. petosa
>
>
> >I am pleased to find that my reply impelled
> >dialogue. In response to the question
> >regarding the sole importance of health
> >outcomes, my current beliefs regarding the
> >end goal of health promotion relate to social
> >justice. Madison Powers and Ruth
> >Faden have presented six dimensions of social justice that I think are a
> good
> >summary of social justice: health, personal
> >security, reasoning, respect, attachment,
> >and self-determination. I believe that health
> >is not the sole outcome of health
> >promotion. However, the fact still remains that
> >self-esteem does not predict health
> >well, and I do not believe that it predicts any
> >of these other factors well either. The
> >problem with self-esteem is that the construct
> >that has insufficient validity and
> >reliability, especially when one considers
> >implicit as opposed to explicit measures of
> >self-esteem and if one controls for variables
> >such as intelligence and SES. Women
> >and men, this is not a gender determined
> >problem, have issues with self-image.
> >Women and men are both objectified in the
> >media. This objectification is both an
> >influence on and a reflection of peopleÂ’s
> >values. As a contemporary stereotypical
> >but concise example, female models are objectified and male athletes are
> >objectified. Men and women are both body
> >conscious but in different ways and with
> >potentially varying magnitudes. There are
> >certainly cultural factors that influence
> >self-image. As Erich Fromm pointed out decades ago, Americans are a having
> >culture and not a being culture. We want to
> >have this or that (i.e., esteem through
> >an expanded version of vanity) and not simply
> >be. In fact, studies have shown that
> >women want a body that is actually slimmer than
> >the men would prefer for women.
> >I speculate that the catchall of self-esteem is
> >simply a distal symptom of the
> >underdevelopment in other dimensions of social
> >justice (e.g., security, respect,
> >reasoning, attachment, and
> >self-determination). I also want to clarify that I do not
> >want to take a solipsistic position. Strictly
> >focusing on self-determination of oneÂ’s
> >own mind is a naïve assumption. The development of self-esteem without
> >developing the other dimensions of social
> >justice would create a truly individualistic
> >view of the self and where the self fits into an
> >environment. The classic example is
> >that some sociopaths have great self-esteem.
> >
> >Regarding the Dove campaign specifically, I will
> >support my belief with evidence in
> >order to allay mystification. I will refer to
> >the website since it is publicly accessible.
> >The Dove models are almost all white women who
> >are I would guess between a size
> >6 and 10, and I do not see any women with
> >obvious physical disabilities. I also do
> >not see any women who are severely
> >overweight. I also see an under-representation
> >women over 50.
> >See http://campaignforrealbeauty.co.uk/nominate.asp?
> >src=Home_POD2_billboardCamp
> >The playing with beauty game depicts smaller sized young women.
> >http://campaignforrealbeauty.co.uk/playingwithbeauty.asp
> >The global survey limited its sample to women age 15 to 64.
> >http://campaignforrealbeauty.co.uk/whitepaper.asp
> >The girls only self-esteem zone depicts primarily thin white healthy
> looking
> >females.
> >http://campaignforrealbeauty.co.uk/dsef07/t5.aspx?id=8132
> >
> >I am still unconvinced that Dove has justified
> >an argument for altering the definition
> >of beauty or discovering real beauty.
> >
> >I also disagree with the overall position of the
> >campaign regarding real women and
> >real beauty. Are women who are not approved by
> >Dove unreal as people or in their
> >beauty? I will not bash one group of women (I am guessing the models are
> >supposed to be unreal women) to make another
> >feel better. I do not have a positive
> >appreciation of this worldview or human tendency.
> >Furthermore, there are certainly vain men as
> >well as women. The problem is vanity
> >and it is not resolved by implying that it is
> >okay for men to be gray haired obese
> >men. To say that being overweight, older, and
> >with acne is considered a norm of
> >male attractiveness is certainly a
> >fallacy. There are standards for male physical
> >attractiveness as well. Other attributes for
> >males and females certainly also matter
> >above and beyond physical attractiveness. Dove
> >seems to position that self-esteem
> >is the attribute to be highlighted. I question this position.
> >
> >I am sure that some women applaud the Dove Campaign, but men and women also
> >applauded Hitler. People have the right to
> >express their opinions, but they also
> >have the responsibility to justify their
> >opinions. Rights without responsibilities are
> >like unfunded mandates. Anecdotal evidence supporting a program,
> especially
> >considering the zeitgeist to avoid contrarian
> >opinions, does not make a program
> >sound in theory of program or change. What is
> >the justification for liking this
> >program, outside of projected egotism?
> >
> >James
> >
> >**
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> >** www.hedir.org/support.htm
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> >**
> >**
>
> R. Lingyak Petosa, Ph.D.
> Health and Physical Activity Behavior
> School of PAES
> A42 PAES Building
> 305 W. 17th Ave.
> The Ohio State University
> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>
> http://education.osu.edu/rpetosa/
> fax 614-688-3432
> ph: 614-292-8345
>
> **
> ** Support the HEDIR With Your Gift
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> ** Support the HEDIR With Your Gift
> ** www.hedir.org/support.htm
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